nurse doesn't believe in life-sustaining measures for herself

Atheos · Jul 13, 2008

I'm not a DNR. No way I am walking to death silently. I'll be kicking and screaming like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum. If I come back a vegetable, it will be easy enough to transport me to Oregon or somewhere else where I can be put out of my misery...

suespets · Jul 13, 2008

I'm curious; Did no one ask how she justifies working as a nurse in a hospital?or say "do you feel the same about your patients? ("If not,why not?")

mcs1505 · Jul 13, 2008

She does not believe in taking ANY type of medication. No Tylenol, insulin, antidepressants, heart meds, on and on. Nothing, nada. She does not believe in preventative medicine-has never had a PAP, mammaogram. She has 2 school age children which were home births (and are home-schooled) and she does not believe in vaccinations.

First of all, I was homeschooled until 8th grade (to redeem all the homeschoolers out there who were just lumped into this "abnormal scenario" :madface: ) and it really really bugs me when people won't vaccinate their kids. Yeah, sure, it's their kids bodies blah blah blah, but it's also my (future) kids' world that is going to be overrun with susceptible people to serve as hosts for the viruses to become more prevalent! Grrrr.

I do however, try to avoid the tylenol etc. when I can, though obviously I would take the critical meds like insulin.

I don't see why she avoids the preventative medicine, though. I'm a huge believer in God and fate and life plans and all that, but I believe that it was also "fated" that we discover ways to detect and treat these things! It's very much like that man-on-the-roof-waiting-for-God-to-save-him story everyone likes to tell.

Jules A, MSN · Jul 13, 2008

Well I just flat-out asked new nurse today about her beliefs and she is very willing to share. The doctor and I were both very interested.
Just to clarify; this has nothing to do with living wills, DNRs, vents, trachs etc. She does not believe in taking ANY type of medication. No Tylenol, insulin, antidepressants, heart meds, on and on. Nothing, nada. She does not believe in preventative medicine-has never had a PAP, mammaogram. She has 2 school age children which were home births (and are home-schooled) and she does not believe in vaccinations. She is very involved in her church , but this is not all about religion. I think she veiws nursing as 'just the career' she picked right of high school.
Everyone has their own views and convictions and these are hers. I do get the feeling something drastic in her life led to this way of living but at the end of the day my head was dizzy from all this info (I needed a Tylenol!!) and I couldn't listen anymore! She was wonderful with the patients and is very easy to work with and not a slacker and totally on top of everything. (She has been a nurse for 18 years).
I am at loss because I have such a passion for what I do. I am so thrilled when a patient finally gets a diagnosis and begin to see the light... I think nursing is very stressful and to do this job everyday when you don't really believe in it, to me, would be overwhelming. But then that is just me and to someone else it is just a job.

Thanks for the update, this has been a most interesting topic.

My comparision to DNR was only used to equate something I feel passionate about but do not let interfere with my patient care, thats all. Doesn't really matter to me if she is against intubation or multivitamins imo it boils down to a difference of opinion if the professional is willing to do their job and honor their patient's wishes.

From what you have written it sounds like she is a caring, competent nurse with beliefs that are very different from most of ours. Another thing to remember is that 18 years ago she probably didn't have as many career options offered to her as young women have today.

shelly304 · Jul 14, 2008

First of all, I was homeschooled until 8th grade (to redeem all the homeschoolers out there who were just lumped into this "abnormal scenario" ) and it really really bugs me when people won't vaccinate their kids. Yeah, sure, it's their kids bodies blah blah blah, but it's also my (future) kids' world that is going to be overrun with susceptible people to serve as hosts for the viruses to become more prevalent! Grrrr.
I do however, try to avoid the tylenol etc. when I can, though obviously I would take the critical meds like insulin.
I don't see why she avoids the preventative medicine, though. I'm a huge believer in God and fate and life plans and all that, but I believe that it was also "fated" that we discover ways to detect and treat these things! It's very much like that man-on-the-roof-waiting-for-God-to-save-him story everyone likes to tell.

I mentioned her children were home-schooled because this seemed very important to her when speaking of her beliefs. A part of who she is.

I was home-schooled until high school. My parents were just hippies who didn't want to conform. Now they are main-stream republicans who just returned from Vegas, where they vacationed. Go figure!

So please be sure, I wasn't lumping!

kcochrane · Jul 14, 2008

While I respect her beliefs, I'm with the crowd that thinks it is strange to be in nursing with those kind of beliefs. Perhaps she became a nurse first and then thought this way??? Just odd in my opinion. BUT, sounds like she is still able to be a good nurse. I would be concerned if she was using nursing for her own crusade, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

talaxandra · Jul 14, 2008

I'm really interested in how much my attitude changed while reading this thread (which I just came to). At first I thought it was really weird, and potentially dangerous, to have a nurse who believed illness and accidents were part of God's plan and ought not be interferred with (even preventatively).

But the post (sorry, I can't remember who you were) about Jehovah's Witnesses who are happy to administer blood products made me reconsider if this was really all that different. After all, I'm often very comfortable performing interventions I wouldn't want for myself or a loved one (less happy when it really seems that person's time to go and the family Just. Won't Let. Them. Go but that's another thread!).

So thatnk you all, especially the OP (for posting to start with, then actually asking the nurse, and for saying that she's experienced and very good) - I always like to come away with a slight shift in my perceptions :)

Babs0512 · Jul 14, 2008

Personally, I think you're all being to harsh with regard to your comments. This woman in entitled to her opinions with regard to medical treatment for herself - so why the big issue?

I'm going to say that I completely agree with her. I feel exactly the same way. I am an excellent nurse, very caring, very intelligent, very able to separate my beliefs from those of my patients.

Not everyone has a happy life. I live with depression and chronic pain and buried my son. Suffice it to say, I have made myself a DNR. If it is my time, let me go. Period. Life is hard, sometimes too hard. I will not end my life, but I don't want it prolonged either.

Don't judge until you have walked a mile in someone elses shoes. Any of you would be lucky to have me as a your nurse. I'm a fab patient advocate and I know my stuff. My personal beliefs regarding myself, I do not speak with my patients about.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, especially their opinions regarding themselves.

That's my :twocents: worth

Have a nice evening

kcochrane · Jul 14, 2008

Personally, I think you're all being to harsh with regard to your comments. This woman in entitled to her opinions with regard to medical treatment for herself - so why the big issue?
I'm going to say that I completely agree with her. I feel exactly the same way. I am an excellent nurse, very caring, very intelligent, very able to separate my beliefs from those of my patients.
Not everyone has a happy life. I live with depression and chronic pain and buried my son. Suffice it to say, I have made myself a DNR. If it is my time, let me go. Period. Life is hard, sometimes too hard. I will not end my life, but I don't want it prolonged either.
Don't judge until you have walked a mile in someone elses shoes. Any of you would be lucky to have me as a your nurse. I'm a fab patient advocate and I know my stuff. My personal beliefs regarding myself, I do not speak with my patients about.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, especially their opinions regarding themselves.
That's my worth
Have a nice evening

I think its normal to be curious about why someone that does not believe in any medical intervention would choose nursing as a career. And it is natural to wonder if those beliefs would spill out in her care. I think in most cases people can hold different beliefs and still be a good nurse.

I think that being DNR and not believing in any medical intervention are worlds apart. I totally understand why you have chosen to be DNR and I would probably do the same in your case. Thanks for sharing, I'm sure that wasn't easy.

shelly304 · Jul 14, 2008

Personally, I think you're all being to harsh with regard to your comments. This woman in entitled to her opinions with regard to medical treatment for herself - so why the big issue?
I'm going to say that I completely agree with her. I feel exactly the same way. I am an excellent nurse, very caring, very intelligent, very able to separate my beliefs from those of my patients.
Not everyone has a happy life. I live with depression and chronic pain and buried my son. Suffice it to say, I have made myself a DNR. If it is my time, let me go. Period. Life is hard, sometimes too hard. I will not end my life, but I don't want it prolonged either.
Don't judge until you have walked a mile in someone elses shoes. Any of you would be lucky to have me as a your nurse. I'm a fab patient advocate and I know my stuff. My personal beliefs regarding myself, I do not speak with my patients about.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, especially their opinions regarding themselves.
That's my worth
Have a nice evening

Did you read the entire thread? This is not about end-of-life measures,

vents, trachs, or DNRs!

I think most of the comments were very supportive of this nurse, especially after I wrote about the opportunity to speak with her more about her beliefs. But in this age of medicine, where so many wonderful drugs are available, it is sometimes hard to understand why someone might choose to suffer needlessly. I hope for the chronic depression you suffer from, you may have found some relief in an antidepressant. But if you choose not to take anything, then that is your choice. I have suffered from age 13, horrendous migraines. Imitrex is my best-friend. I couldn't work at a news stand if I didn't have my meds. I wouldn't allow myself (and my husband!) to suffer knowing I can take this life-changing drug. But, if the nurse I wrote of had similiar life events and chose not to take anything-so be it.

As I stated earlier in this thread, both my husband and I have very

well-defined living wills. In this day and age, most should. Putting this stress on family members during a crisis of health makes everyones wishes

cystal clear.

Babs0512 · Jul 14, 2008

Yes, Shelly, I did read the thread. Did you read my reply?

I do take antidepressants, two of them actually, I attend counseling. I refuse narc's for pain, as they make me nauseated and affect my thinking ability - so I get steroid cervical pain injections, about 6 a year. Mostly, you just learn to live with it.

I'm sorry you cannot understand why someone would not want extreme life saving measures. Perhaps your life hasn't been as difficult as mine, or perhaps you are just a different person - in any case, I'm doing what I have to do to maintain some sort of existence in this world. If I were diagnoses with colon Ca, I would choose no treatment. I take fiber supplements and I have had a colonoscopy, so I do what I can to prevent it, but if it were to happen, then, so be it. Same for any other type of CA, or MI.

I've seen people kept "alive" for all the wrong reasons, I've helped keep people alive who have told me privately (when family isn't there) that they've "had a good life, and just want to go now." Only to be guilted into "fighting" because their children "can't live without them".

How dare we keep a 95 y/o person alive who has told nurse after nurse that they want to go, but the family makes such a stink that the doc's "back down". I don't want to be that person.

I believe all things happen for a reason, including my son's death. I've come to believe my son died so my daughter would live - my husband believes the same. Both were on a path to destruction, and Michaels death stopped "DD" from continuing her distructive ways. Doesn't make us feel any better, but we believe there was a reason.

I will die, perhaps tomorrow, next month, ten years from now, who knows? When it is my time, God help anyone who interferes. I'm looking forward to it.

God Bless all

leslie :-D · Jul 14, 2008

I'm sorry you cannot understand why someone would not want extreme life saving measures.

i thought we were talking about mild or moderate life-saving measures...

this nurse doesn't even want to be heimliched.

she won't take abx or any meds that could save her life.

we're not talking about anything extreme at all.

but, as we already know, her choice.

and to be respected.

it is unusual to read about these type of wishes, however.

leslie