I was in the strangest conversation today with a new nurse. She explained to us that she feels like any type of life-saving treatment such as the Heimlich would be interfering in Gods plan for her. If she starts choking at lunch, she feels this is "her time to go" and wants no one to prevent it! If she is in a car accident and is seriously wounded, but could have life-saving treatment, she does not want it. If she is diagnosed with any type of illness where life sustaining meds could be taken, she is against this.
Everyone who was listening to her eventually just took the conversation elsewhere because no one knew how to respond. One of our doctors was listening to her also. As he walked away he said, "nursing seems like a strange career for you". I have to agree. I was speechless...and that is rare for me!
How can this person be effective as a nurse? How can they educate their patients on their illnesses? And on and on.... I have been pondering this for hours; every aspect of it. What do you guys think?
I agree that it's strange, but whatever, if it's what she wants. I think it's the same with ANY belief system. I, personally, don't like the idea of a Jehova's Witness refusing blood. However, I respect it as their choice. I'm not going to force my belief on them. I guess it's the same with her. As long as she honors other's wishes and beliefs, there should be no problem where her beliefs are concerned.
---Also, I work with many Jehova's Witness nurses, and they don't force their belief on their patients. Usually, they will go pick up the blood, but they won't initiate the transfusion. They'll monitor after someone else initiates it for them. It's never really been an issue at my hospital. As long as we all keep our beliefs to ourselves, we should be fine.
Yes, this is how I am trying to view it, but....I have these visions, you know like the wicked witch standing over a patient saying, "I realize you are allergic to bees, just got stung, can't breathe, and need this injection but are you sure it's not just your time to go"
Just those silly thoughts rambling round in my head!:uhoh21:
I don't think its wrong for her to feel the way she does. That's her opinion/religious belief. I've told my family that in the event that something happens to me and I can only be kept alive by artifical means, then I'd rather be removed from life support.
I just wouldn't want to spend my last days with a trach, a vent, continuous infection, bedsores, etc.
I don't think its wrong for her to feel the way she does. That's her opinion/religious belief. I've told my family that in the event that something happens to me and I can only be kept alive by artifical means, then I'd rather be removed from life support.
I just wouldn't want to spend my last days with a trach, a vent, continuous infection, bedsores, etc.
Oh,me too! Both my husband and I have living wills.Very well defined.
But if I am choking on a chicken bone and someone wants to do the Heimlich on me I am not going to push them away because I think this is the way I am supposed to go!
I guess I'm in the minority here, because I don't see the problem.
I see choices made every day that strongly conflict with my personal belief system and yet I manage to function just fine.
One concrete example: I know without a doubt that I myself would not consider receiving a transplanted organ under any circumstances. Yet, I dutifilly call the organ procurement agency every single time I have an imminent death and feel no conflict in doing so.
I regularly sit with families and explain what DNR, resuscitation, and "code status" mean, and explain all of the options for resuscitation, even when I might be thinking, "for the love of God, please do not ask us to resuscitate your 96-year old contracted, septic mother."
I don't see why this nurse's viewpoint on her own medical treatment is any less valid than anyone else's.
I guess I'm in the minority here, because I don't see the problem.
I see choices made every day that strongly conflict with my personal belief system and yet I manage to function just fine.
One concrete example: I know without a doubt that I myself would not consider receiving a transplanted organ under any circumstances. Yet, I dutifilly call the organ procurement agency every single time I have an imminent death and feel no conflict in doing so.
I regularly sit with families and explain what DNR, resuscitation, and "code status" mean, and explain all of the options for resuscitation, even when I might be thinking, "for the love of God, please do not ask us to resuscitate your 96-year old contracted, septic mother."
I don't see why this nurse's viewpoint on her own medical treatment is any less valid than anyone else's.
I see the distinction as this. Although you wouldn't choose those things for yourself, you wouldn't bring your opinion to bear upon someone else's choices. The person described by the OP said the basis for her not having (in some cases rather standard) medical interventions was that she didn't want to interfere with "God's plan". The irony is that she chose a career where, if that's what she believes medical intervention amounts to, then she's essentially saying she's fine with interfering with "God's plan" for OTHER people...just not her OWN.
I see the distinction as this. Although you wouldn't choose those things for yourself, you wouldn't bring your opinion to bear upon someone else's choices. The person described by the OP said the basis for her not having (in some cases rather standard) medical interventions was that she didn't want to interfere with "God's plan". The irony is that she chose a career where, if that's what she believes medical intervention amounts to, then she's essentially saying she's fine with interfering with "God's plan" for OTHER people...just not her OWN.
In my example I insinuated that receiving a transplanted organ conflicted with my personal belief system. I did not elaborate. Suppose I had said that I believe receiving a transplanted organ would "interfere with God's plan for me." Would you extrapolate that to mean that I am unable to consider organ transplantation as a "legitimate" treatment within the realm of modern medical technology? I might be misunderstanding you, but that's what I interpret that you are doing with this nurse's stated opinion.
In my example I insinuated that receiving a transplanted organ conflicted with my personal belief system. I did not elaborate. Suppose I had said that I believe receiving a transplanted organ would "interfere with God's plan for me." Would you extrapolate that to mean that I am unable to consider organ transplantation as a "legitimate" treatment within the realm of modern medical technology? I might be misunderstanding you, but that's what I interpret that you are doing with this nurse's stated opinion.
No. No. No. Let me try again. I'm observing the irony that she would rather die than have someone ELSE interfere with "God's plan"...but HER interference with "God's plan" is going to be business as usual, given the career she chose.
"YOU" are not to interfere with "God's plan" for ME by giving me the Heimlich maneuver. (Why is it wrong for someone ELSE to interfere?)
"I", however, am earthly-duty bound to interfere with "God's plan" for YOU, so if you start choking on my watch, then, I'm sorry, Lord, but I AM OVERRULING you on this one! (Why is it okay for HER to interfere?)
While I really do believe that I have an appointed time to die, I sure don't want to leave early by doing something stupid.
:yeahthat: But I have a living will too, even though I'm only 22, because I don't trust my parents not to try and keep me around even after all hope is gone. We had a kid at my college who went into cardiac arrest during a soccer game and while he is no longer on life support, he's completely dependent, alert but unable to respond, and in chronic pain.
That's my personal definition of hell...
I just wouldn't want to spend my last days with a trach, a vent, continuous infection, bedsores, etc.
Thanks for the added explanation. And I believe I understand why you view this nurse's opinions as ironic.
I just don't think that this person's views on options for her own medical treatment are any less valid than any one else's, however unusual or novel they may be given her chosen profession. Medicine does interfere greatly with "natural death" ... whatever that term means to you. The challenge of modern life is to be able to exercise our free will to "manage" illness and eventual death in accordance with our own beliefs.
I agree with MLOS. I am personally somewhat of a medical heretic myself. I avoid doctors at all costs by living a healthy lifestyle. I don't really agree with many aspects of modern medicine, which is not very holistic. I think our population is over-vaccinated, takes antibiotics like candy, eats crapola, is sedentary, etc and so forth.
Yet, I'm an great nurse, I have a wonderful bedside manner, I try to work ethically within the system, giving compassionate care to human beings. I respect the choices that people make and realize that I live in an imperfect world.
(Why is it wrong for someone ELSE to interfere?)
shelly304
383 Posts
Yes, this is how I am trying to view it, but....I have these visions, you know like the wicked witch standing over a patient saying, "I realize you are allergic to bees, just got stung, can't breathe, and need this injection but are you sure it's not just your time to go"
Just those silly thoughts rambling round in my head!:uhoh21: