NP Hates from Physicians?

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Specializes in NP student.

Hi all,

The title says it all. Have you faced hates or disrespect from physicians (either attending or training) just because you are a NP? Because I did. Online. 

As a RN and a NP student, I have seen many great attending physicians who work collaboratively and respectively with NPs. That rosy perception completely changed once I joined Reddit medical communities. There are massive posts showing hates against NP. The two main areas of criticism come down to: 1. Taking NP's malpractice cases or individual's anecdotal examples to basically question competency of all NPs in the states (although I am curious as to malpractice cases in comparison with MDs), 2.  misunderstand and derogate the implication DNP (though it's an academic degree, not a clinical degree as MD, the physicians and trainee there seem to take it as NPs just trying to put a doctor title and lobbying to obtain an independent practice despite NP's allegedly inadequate competency. 

I am not here to say NPs are equally trained as MDs because they are certainly not. Also, I also feel NP education has definitely rooms for improvement (another area of discussion). 
Also, I acknowledge these people don't represent the majority medical societies so should take these views with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, I am unsure what to make out of the hates from these physicians (primarily in training) who will be our future coworkers other than trying to continuously learn and improve my competency and hopefully avoiding these toxic people in my future career if I have a choice. 

I would appreciate any insightful advice from current NPs in the field. Thank you! 

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Specializes in psych/medical-surgical.
1 hour ago, Myec said:

 Because I did. Online. 

People are much more emboldened to post hate speech online, because there is anonymity. 

In the real world, I haven't encountered it one bit in the 11 years I have been a nurse and in the hospital from the medical branch. Most bullying (IRL) I have been victim too was lateral violence from other nurses.

Hence I am now a DNP... 

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Specializes in NP student.

Thank you, DrCOVID! That is a good point about the anonymity online and somewhat relieving to hear the negative attitude towards NPs has not been prevalent in your practice. 

Great to meet a practicing DNP here as a future DNP student! 

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22 hours ago, Myec said:

Hi all,

The title says it all. Have you faced hates or disrespect from physicians (either attending or training) just because you are a NP? Because I did. Online. 

As a RN and a NP student, I have seen many great attending physicians who work collaboratively and respectively with NPs. That rosy perception completely changed once I joined Reddit medical communities. There are massive posts showing hates against NP. The two main areas of criticism come down to: 1. Taking NP’s malpractice cases or individual’s anecdotal examples to basically question competency of all NPs in the states (although I am curious as to malpractice cases in comparison with MDs), 2.  misunderstand and derogate the implication DNP (though it’s an academic degree, not a clinical degree as MD, the physicians and trainee there seem to take it as NPs just trying to put a doctor title and lobbying to obtain an independent practice despite NP’s allegedly inadequate competency. 

I am not here to say NPs are equally trained as MDs because they are certainly not. Also, I also feel NP education has definitely rooms for improvement (another area of discussion). 
Also, I acknowledge these people don’t represent the majority medical societies so should take these views with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, I am unsure what to make out of the hates from these physicians (primarily in training) who will be our future coworkers other than trying to continuously learn and improve my competency and hopefully avoiding these toxic people in my future career if I have a choice. 

I would appreciate any insightful advice from current NPs in the field. Thank you! 

Reddit is a dumpster for of anonymous hate. We can probably find far more cases en mass of poor physician practice and malpractice just by nature of their total numbers. They post those things because they know the medical tide is turning and they are unwilling to accept it.  Find colleagues you can work with and move forward with those relationships. Anyone who fails to adapt to change will spend their life bitter as the world passes them by. 

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Specializes in Psych/Mental Health.

I don't visit those online forums on Reddit (there's really no reason to and I don't care what they think). All that animosity comes down to the push for NP independent practice, and I do believe that majority of physicians are not for NP independence even if they maintain good working relationships with NPs in the real world.

When I read physicians forums, I only read the ones that would increase my clinical, practice, and business knowledge. All those idle talks are irrelevant.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.

Well here is one actual study comparing actual lawsuits filed against NP's, and MD's. https://www.thedoctors.com/the-doctors-advocate/first-quarter-2018/nurse-practitioner-closed-claims-study/  . It does not support the assertion that NP's are sued more frequently or for greater severity of error than MD's.  

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Specializes in OB.
On 12/20/2020 at 8:24 AM, djmatte said:

They post those things because they know the medical tide is turning and they are unwilling to accept it. 

This.  Reddit is not exactly the forum I'd use to judge a profession at large, it's full of insecure, miserable people.

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Specializes in psych/medical-surgical.
On 12/20/2020 at 1:11 PM, umbdude said:

All those idle talks are irrelevant.

Isn't that absolute truth. You really need to be careful what you put into your head. I had to stop reading a couple forums because they were making me depressed! If you think the hate for NPs is bad, try visiting r/niceguys or r/whereareallthegoodmen LOL

My fav thing about reddit is getting downvote obliterated for posting facts/truths. Therefore, my goal is to accumulate as much negative karma as possible!

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Specializes in CEN, Firefighter/Paramedic.

Not like SDN is any better.. It's almost comical how literally every post can somehow devolve into NP/PA bashing..

"Hey guys, wondering if I should get an iPad for rounds?"

"WHATS THE POINT, NPs ONLY GO TO SCHOOL FOR 3 WEEKS"

 

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Specializes in NP student.

Thanks everyone! I love how you guys are very wise about which information to filter or counterargue with evidence-based facts when it comes to this sensitive topic. 

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We should be concerned.  I know a NP who became a PA.  Related, she no longer deals with role confusion or questioning.  I try really hard as a NP to present myself with the struggle in mind, and have pondered going back for a DNP. Working in my practice, reality is nobody cares what letters you've got, nobody wears their big white coats at all in fact, and physicians/NPs all go by first names.  They care that I know inside and out what I am doing.  Clinical knowledge, communication, and patient outcomes assign us each our "label."   The studying I did and continue to do on my own, especially when I was a new NP in a supportive internship-type environment, taught me most of what I know.  I was not safe to treat pneumonia, for example, and antibiotics were memorized but I had no clue how to use them SAFELY as a new grad.  Yet I passed my exam with what I recall the fewest number of questions LOL and all the credentials for independent practice were handed to me.

I love my job and feel valued and respected, and it's more the idea of our profession and identity which I feel desperate to fight for as to wanting to return to school.  I looked in depth at PA training vs the DNP, just for brainstorming options in light of my friend.  Significantly, I would not be able to work and manage the rigors of PA school, but could easily (and would be catered to do so) work and maintain a DNP program.  I am a proud NP and love being a nurse at my core, and will continue the fight for the respect we deserve, but it would be nice if nursing leaders protected our NP identities like other professions (our MD, PA colleagues) protect theirs.  

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.
6 hours ago, aok7 said:

We should be concerned.  I know a NP who became a PA.  Related, she no longer deals with role confusion or questioning.  I try really hard as a NP to present myself with the struggle in mind, and have pondered going back for a DNP. Working in my practice, reality is nobody cares what letters you've got, nobody wears their big white coats at all in fact, and physicians/NPs all go by first names.  They care that I know inside and out what I am doing.  Clinical knowledge, communication, and patient outcomes assign us each our "label."   The studying I did and continue to do on my own, especially when I was a new NP in a supportive internship-type environment, taught me most of what I know.  I was not safe to treat pneumonia, for example, and antibiotics were memorized but I had no clue how to use them SAFELY as a new grad.  Yet I passed my exam with what I recall the fewest number of questions LOL and all the credentials for independent practice were handed to me.

I love my job and feel valued and respected, and it's more the idea of our profession and identity which I feel desperate to fight for as to wanting to return to school.  I looked in depth at PA training vs the DNP, just for brainstorming options in light of my friend.  Significantly, I would not be able to work and manage the rigors of PA school, but could easily (and would be catered to do so) work and maintain a DNP program.  I am a proud NP and love being a nurse at my core, and will continue the fight for the respect we deserve, but it would be nice if nursing leaders protected our NP identities like other professions (our MD, PA colleagues) protect theirs.  

There are advantages to being an NP over a PA such as full IP in many states. Also realize that if you go back to school to become a DNP realize that beyond the Masters level almost none of the content is clinical. At the end of the day I could care less what anyone thinks of me besides my clients. It is not uncommon for me to go six months without speaking to another human save for a client on tele video, my SO, my 19 year old son and people at the insurance companies where I call to get prior auth’s. 

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