Notified of call before being on call

[rlgiv]

What are your hospitals policy when it comes to when someone is notified for call?

I was on call from 7a7p on monday. Was at work Sunday and was not notified about being called in. Went to bed and turned off my phone because I didn't want to be disturbed but knowing I was on call the next morning woke up at 0630 and my phone back on. I received a call at 0710 calling me in. Went to work in a timely fashion and when I got there was told dept. Manager wanted to see me. She wanted to writeme up because I didn't respond to a call that was placed at 0500. Keep in mind I wasn't on call until 0700.

In the end we had a disagreement and I asked her to see the policy in writing and she couldn't find it. She asked me to step out for a few minutes while she looked for it and I took that time to call human resources. They asked if I would like for them to speak with her. They called her in her office immediately and a few minutes later I returned just as there conversation was ending. She then decided not to write me up and informed me that she was going to add an addendum to the policy.

So, the new policy will allow them to call us hours before our actual call starts. This seems to be pretty extreme to me. So does being on call for you mean I am available to be called in from say 7am to whatever time or would you expect a phone call in the middle of the night hours before your even on call?

[Workitinurfava, BSN, RN]

1 minute ago, NurseBlaq said:

She was wrong on both accounts in my post. What type of treatment are you speaking? It's common to get a call BEFORE your start time and if you had the phone turned off 30 minutes before you were supposed to be at work I don't see why you wouldn't call. I would to make sure they hadn't called me but the again I wouldn't have had the phone turned off or would have turned it on earlier. It isn't rocket science. I fail to see what your gripe is. She didn't know she was supposed to be in because there wasn't a message left. So what is your gripe?

It depends on where a person works as far as how on-call works so in that case, I will leave this discussion alone.

[NurseBlaq]

1 minute ago, Workitinurfava said:

It depends on where a person works as far as how on-call works so in that case, I will leave this discussion alone.

Understood and agreed. My reply was based on the information we were given.

[Workitinurfava, BSN, RN]

7 minutes ago, NurseBlaq said:

Understood and agreed. My reply was based on the information we were given.

Her post shows two different things (not notified about being called in/but knowing I was on call). See below... It is not straight forward.

"I was on call from 7a7p on monday. Was at work Sunday and was not notified about being called in. Went to bed and turned off my phone because I didn't want to be disturbed but knowing I was on call the next morning woke up at 0630 and my phone back on."--OP

[klone, MSN, RN]

I don't believe the OP has answered the question as to whether the house supervisor (or whoever called her at 0500) left a voicemail.

Also, I'm curious what is the hospital's policy on response time?

[brownbook]

5 hours ago, klone said:

I don't believe the OP has answered the question as to whether the house supervisor (or whoever called her at 0500) left a voicemail.

Also, I'm curious what is the hospital's policy on response time?

This has become the most confusing post over what I, we, assumed was simple!

As to response time.... again confusing. If you're on call to be available at 0700....it may be hard for a manager to know who lives 30 minutes away and who lives over an hour away.

If you're on call for OR or Cath Lab,etc., for emergencies, many times on call staff must be able to clock in 30 minutes after receiving the call.

I'm still somewhat confused about the original post. Seems like being on call at 7:00 meant you'll be called at 7 if you're needed, then I guess not have to clock in till 8ish or however long it takes.

I can't believe it's that complicated, but I'm still confused ?.

[NurseBlaq]

9 hours ago, Workitinurfava said:

Her post shows two different things (not notified about being called in/but knowing I was on call). See below... It is not straight forward.

"I was on call from 7a7p on monday. Was at work Sunday and was not notified about being called in. Went to bed and turned off my phone because I didn't want to be disturbed but knowing I was on call the next morning woke up at 0630 and my phone back on."--OP

Then she said they called her back at 710. No one knows if a message was left or not. Nor do we know what time she actually arrived at work to relieve the night shift or whatever the case may be.

[JKL33]

6 hours ago, brownbook said:

As to response time.... again confusing. If you're on call to be available at 0700....it may be hard for a manager to know who lives 30 minutes away and who lives over an hour away.

No one needs to know any of that regardless of the interpretation of this. It is simple. You are either on call at 0700 or you are "on call for days tomorrow" - the latter basically meaning "on call at 0700" plus on unpaid stand-by prior to 0700. Let's call it what it is: "On call to be available at 0700" as you mean it above, doesn't mean on-call at 0700, it means you are on unpaid stand-by up until 0700 and then you are officially on-call if they haven't called you by 0700.

As far as who benefits, it could be considered a wash, probably. Enough of us would prefer not to get the call at 0700 and only have whatever the expected response time is to rush in to work. So, being called earlier has been a convenience for us. And it has certainly been a benefit to the employer because seemingly no one has ever considered that they should pay 2 hours' call time if they want to call people at 0500.

I think the greed starts showing a little when an employer decides that a mutually-beneficial mutual courtesy is a rule over which they would write someone up, when the bottom line is that they too have been benefitting by not paying for the services they receive according to the "traditional" understanding of this.

[NoctuRNal_UnicoRN, ASN, BSN]

The policy should have clearly defined what is to happen during call situations, which it obviously didn't, considering it "couldn't be found" by the manager. I would guess that the manager knew their actions could be considered inappropriate, but wanted to fluff her authoritative feathers hoping you'd take the bait without questioning her.

It is appropriate to call someone before their shift, if parameters are clearly defined and expectations are understood. At one facility I work for, we are notified an hour before our shift if we will be getting put on call, or at the other facility we assume pre-arranged call schedules. Most people are awake an hour before their shift, so this is acceptable. If possible, they will notify us up to two hours in advance, but are only required to do one hour. It prevents staff that commute long distance from hitting the road and then having to turn around (it is a rural area so many people commute long distance, and winters here are long and treacherous with frequent road closures and unplowed roads).

There may be more than one person on call, so a person is able to inquire whether they are 1st in, 2nd etc. This is especially important during holidays with low census and our annual Christmas gift of increased patient to nurse ratios. We want to know if we are safe to stay in pajamas until lunch time or if we need to be dressed and ready to go by 0700. There is a certain algorithm used to determine call rotation, and most people keep a general idea of when they could reasonably expect to be placed on call. Call runs for the scheduled shift only and starts respectively with call pay. We can be notified of being on call an hour beforehand, but since call and pay start at say 0700, we cannot be called in until 0700 or later. This basically eliminates the need to notify the call person to be there right at 0700, because staffing would know they were needed and would never make the phone call to put the employee on call. Once called, we have either 20 minutes to a half hour to get there depending on the facility. So, if we're called in at 0701, we have until 0731 to punch in at the one facility.

It's expected that our charge nurse and the potential call staff will communicate at the time of on call status about the likelihood of getting called in. The call person should be made aware of whether they are first or second in, if there are pending surgical patients etc. and when they are expected to arrive to the unit if so. This gives staff an expectation and level of comfort while on call. There are some other minor details about our call, but the point is that everyone needs to be on the same page and there should be a clearly defined policy describing expectations.

[Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN]

On 6/4/2019 at 4:42 AM, myoglobin said:

How would you be expected to sleep? This would create a situation of uncertainty leading to potential sleep deprivation and unsafe care. The one more reason unions are so important it’s not just the “big” pay and benefit issues it’s also the “little” abuses that can transform your life into a nightmare.

True, very true.Abuse is rampant,1001 ways to demoralize,burn out a nurse.

And they wonder why nurses are quitting many of these god forsaken jobs......

[DisneyNurseGal, BSN, RN]

When we have on call shifts, it is the expectation that we will be available at the beginning of the shift (to relieve night shift) or through the whole on call period. If we are needed at the beginning of the shift, my unit will call the employee at 0430 (or 1630) to let them know they are expected at 0600 (1800).

I guess I don't understand the OP why they would think a call 2 hours ahead is wrong, I mean do you expect the previous shift to wait for you to arrive?

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

Again, the issue ( at least for me) is the expectation to answer the phone not the obligation to come in. It’s simple if I am on call starting at 0700, then call preferably by 0500 and leave a message and I will show up at work on time by 0700. There should not be any expectation to answer the phone.

[klone, MSN, RN]

2 hours ago, myoglobin said:

Again, the issue ( at least for me) is the expectation to answer the phone not the obligation to come in. It’s simple if I am on call starting at 0700, then call preferably by 0500 and leave a message and I will show up at work on time by 0700. There should not be any expectation to answer the phone.

IMO, there should be no expectation that they answer their phone at 0500. There should be an expectation that we will leave a message at 0500, letting you know we need you to arrive at 0700, and that you will receive that message whenever you get up, and you will arrive for your shift on time.

I'm still wanting to know if they left a message for her when they called at 0500.