No more visitors EVER!

zyanya · Aug 9, 2002

Well, I can't say I've been in an acute care setting in 5 years but quite frankly, I'm appalled reading this... Have things changed so much that this is justified? Granted this is a nursing board and rants are expected...

I came here after running a Google search on the Nurse Reinvestment Act and decided to peek at these boards and I sat here with my jaw hanging. I am perfectly appalled at the attitudes here. And this a public place where anyone can read this! Quite a few of the situations described were handled well and I understand the frustration but the image this sends out is horrid!!!

5 years ago I worked in an ICU with no visiting hours. In theory, it was 7A-7P but often visitors were in attendance whenever they choose to be, so I know what lots of visitors were like 5 years ago, and quite well.

Has anyone here ranting so much thought to give a first time visitor a tour? Explain a little of what's going on?

OK, your husband is on a breathing machine because he isn't breathing well enough on his own to keep his body going. Don't panic if it beeps, he may just be coughing and the machine doesn't quite know how to take it. (fold back sheet gently and show central venous line) He's getting his fluids and medications through this line. One line is simply giving him fluids. One line has a medicine to keep his blood pressure up. I'll be coming in to add in medicine for infection and to keep all these medicines from tearing up his stomach. (show ECG monitor lines and pulse ox monitor) These pieces of equipment allow us to see how he's doing even when we aren't in the room. If things start beeping, we'll be coming in to see what's going on. Feel free to ask someone running around outside if it's okay if no one appears. What we're watching for is signs that his infection is going away. It may look worse soon. When the antibiotics start working, they will kill the bugs making him sick but when the bugs die, they release more poison so it may look worse. There's always the possibility that we haven't started this in time; he may not make it and that's one reason that I think you should be here. He may not respond to you but research has shown tht the sense of hearing is one remains longer than anything else. Stay here and talk to him. If something goes wrong, we need to be able to get to all this equipment. There's a chair over there where you can sit while I do what needs to be done. If something goes terribly wrong, a lot of people are going to come in here and we may ask you to leave; please trust that we will do everything we can to help him if this happens...

Takes 5 minutes....

Sure, some families are annoying but they are also human, they are afraid and they are helpless in the face of the potential death of a loved one. Sometimes "gawkers" come in but by performing this simple ritual, you often gain the support of someone within the family who will call the shots for you. They can tell the other family members and visitors where to sit, when to leave, when to be there. Sometimes, you have to pick a more aggressive family member to performt his function but it works well.

You'd be amazed what it does for your reputation both in the unit and with families. I've had patients code on MY shift and been the only nurse not threatened (very dramatically, I might add) with a lawsuit.

This may be more appropriate to a critical care or end of life discussion rather than one on L&D, which I will admit I am ignorant of, and I'm sure some of you do this for your patients and their visitors, which is great.

I'm sure I managed to peg a rant session and not the typical conversation among nurses nowadays..

At least I hope so because this thread in general sounds like McDonald's cashiers *****ing about people ordering McWhineBurgers and not like professional nurses. I'm also quite certain my comment will make me an object of derision on this forum very quickly but I don't f******g care!! Have some compassion! And don't forget you represent ALL of us when you speak this way. I ENJOYED many of my patient's families and laughed and cried with them, depending on the situation.

If anyone not involved in nursing and is reading this, pleas ebe aware that we do not all hold this disdain for visitors and for all nursing students reading this, take my word for it, you'll be glad you did.

Grrr!

RyanRN · Aug 9, 2002

Well slap the dog and spit in the fire!!!

What makes you think each and every explanation (very nicely written, BTW) HASN"T been tried with family and visitors? I think the gist here is that even AFTER we've gone through this litany we then are asked to repeat the process again and again and again at someone else's convenience, never ours. We do explain it to the wife, the sister, the two kids, the uncle, the neice, the paster, the neighbor, and the bowling partner. Then we all do realize the need to reinforce so much information during such a stressful time , so we start all over again! All this, since you haven't been at the bedside in the last 5 years and might not know (???), and we are severely understaffed, often having three and in my hospitals infinite wisdom, FOUR critical patients. Can we afford to make a mistake, No! Do we have to prioritize, Yes! Are visitors being taught to demand more by the media, Yes. Do each and every one of us have to make decisions about a patients care and/or rights of the family to visit , Yes!

Did you actually read the stories here, it's not just 'annoying' families, it's downright inapporpriate and DANGEROUS behavior we are speaking about. You are taking the wrong people to task I fear.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with the public reading anything written on this board. They need to hear both sides of the debate to make an informed decision too. We GET to ***** (like a MacDonalds hamburger flipper, thanks) and this IS the place to do it. What you seem to be asking is that we shove the truth under the rug because it's not pleasant to hear. Management tells us that all the time, we are used to that angle. Too bad, it needs to be said.

Our patients come FIRST and I am not afraid to let anyone, family, visitor, managment or the Pope know that in no uncertain terms. And some people just don't get it. Now, maybe they will.

(HI FAB4FAN, yeah, I got a kick out the bleacher visual too, LOL)

bagladyrn, RN · Aug 9, 2002

May I respectfully suggest that you get out of your ivory tower and back to floor nursing for about a year, then see if your opinion has changed? I don't suggest that you ask the floor nurses wherever you work, as you do not sound like the type of person who is open to listening to others vent their problems.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Aug 11, 2002

Zyanya, yes I explained in my situation for 30min why the pushing /delivery stage is critical and that things can go wrong very quickly with both mom and baby and sometimes both, that mom will have her butt open to the world and perhaps would prefer privacy (visitors answer, "she won't care") and had actually stated her wishes as to who she wanted in the room already (not the 7 people that kept going in and out). Everyone was welcome to stay before pushing, and once stabilized and cleaned they could come visit afterwards. But during the critical stage I needed the area with equipment, moniters, access to assist sterile doc, clear. And while bagging a baby, or treating a hemorrhage I can't treat the crisis and explain at the same time (I am just not superhuman!). But would be glad to do so once everyone was stabilized.

Everything was explained at least twice to each of the 7 visitors. And what happened? We went to section, had a baby needing bagging, CPR, transfer to larger facility, and a mom who had a pp hemorrhage on the table. And the family was peeking through the cracks in the OR doors, but being in the middle of a code I didn't have time to explain again why the mom's privacy was important, or why nosing up to the door could result in serious injury if someone came running through it in search of some piece of equipment.

So tell me, what ELSE was there to do to make this family more comfortable? And when you hear them mimicking your explanation out in the hall (proving they heard and understood) what would YOU do?

fab4fan · Aug 11, 2002

Originally posted by RyanRN
Well slap the dog and spit in the fire!!!

What makes you think each and every explanation (very nicely written, BTW) HASN"T been tried with family and visitors? I think the gist here is that even AFTER we've gone through this litany we then are asked to repeat the process again and again and again at someone else's convenience, never ours. We do explain it to the wife, the sister, the two kids, the uncle, the neice, the paster, the neighbor, and the bowling partner. Then we all do realize the need to reinforce so much information during such a stressful time , so we start all over again! All this, since you haven't been at the bedside in the last 5 years and might not know (???), and we are severely understaffed, often having three and in my hospitals infinite wisdom, FOUR critical patients. Can we afford to make a mistake, No! Do we have to prioritize, Yes! Are visitors being taught to demand more by the media, Yes. Do each and every one of us have to make decisions about a patients care and/or rights of the family to visit , Yes!

Did you actually read the stories here, it's not just 'annoying' families, it's downright inapporpriate and DANGEROUS behavior we are speaking about. You are taking the wrong people to task I fear.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with the public reading anything written on this board. They need to hear both sides of the debate to make an informed decision too. We GET to ***** (like a MacDonalds hamburger flipper, thanks) and this IS the place to do it. What you seem to be asking is that we shove the truth under the rug because it's not pleasant to hear. Management tells us that all the time, we are used to that angle. Too bad, it needs to be said.

Our patients come FIRST and I am not afraid to let anyone, family, visitor, managment or the Pope know that in no uncertain terms. And some people just don't get it. Now, maybe they will.

(HI FAB4FAN, yeah, I got a kick out the bleacher visual too, LOL)

Now that has to be the funniest expression I have heard in a long time...I actually laughed out loud when I read it.

And hey, if you don't like the way this BB sounds, don't read it!! I personally don't care if any alyperson reads this stuff. Maybe one of them will b e enlightened enough to get a clue that nurses are fed up.

And how presumptuous to think that many of us have not already tried the bend over backwards approach to appeasing visitors. People today are not like they were 17y ago when I graduated. Rudeness is the order of the day...he who yells loudest gets taken care of first.

People come here to vent in a safe place; I for one am not infavor of anyone feeling like he/she should have to be afraid to speak his/her mind because of "the public." It's a nursing BB; if a layperson if offended by what's here...too bad, it's not a web site for non-nurses to begin with.

Slap the dog and spit in the fire...LOL!

nimbex, RN · Aug 11, 2002

ZYANA... may I brew you a pot of coffee and order some flowers?

-Visitor with child, leaves 7 year old in CCU with a non responsive patient and goes to Burger King for about 30 minutes... THen threatens to sue me for calling police to pick up the abandoned child.

-I'm coding a patient room 1, family from room 2 opens the curtain and stands there shouting "excuse me", when we look up I say "excuse us, give some privacy, close the curtain" family responds "mom wants her sleeping pill" I respond "in an emergency here I'll get it soon" Visitor responds "mom wants it NOW" ... yes I responded "Get OUT and close the curtain"

-9 church "family members" sneak into the ICU room, when I go to open the CLOSED CURTAIN I find all nine of them discussing how terrible the patient looks, there's no way she'll survive and decide to pray over her!!!! Vented patient with tears pouring out(ALERT) now with a heart rate of 150!!!!!! You all need to leave and no she is not going to die, she's doing quite well is my response, please leave now... "How dare you tell us to leave in the middle of prayer!" is their response... THEY REFUSE TO LEAVE and I'm forced to call security!!!!

-Family member shows up drunk and starts arguing the care being given, "You just sedated her so she won't call you.. you just don't want to work", (IV pump malfunctioned..) " Why don't you get a real nurse who knows what to do..."

-Had an unstable pt. on IABP, Vent, temp. pacer maxed on all drips, about to code. Family brings 4 year old in. I state there are too many lines and equipment for a child in here, pt. is too unstable please remove child. Family starts yelling discrimination saying it's visiting time and I'm being unreasonable. I leave to call supervisor for help... hear a crash.. the child got tangled up in the IV lines and tripped.. SWAN pulled half way out !!! Mom doesn't understand gravity of what has occured and it takes the supervisor to calm both me and the mom and removes them. PT ok though most importantly.

-My all time favorite. No visitor sign posted on door, curtain closed, the visitors just open the curtain and find a naked patient being given a bath or a procedure going on.

What does it take for the PATIENT not the visitor to be the prioity!

That's what this thread is about, excellent nurses CARING for their patients despite numerous obstacles from visitors.

Not nurses who lack the ability to instruct and include visitors in the patients care

THat coffee should be done brewing now, so am I

:imbar :imbar

nimbex, RN · Aug 12, 2002

this thread in general sounds like mcdonald's cashiers *****ing about people ordering mcwhineburgers and not like professional nurses. i'm also quite certain my comment will make me an object of derision on this forum very quickly but i don't f******g care!!

forgot about this part. i'm feeling the need to defend every nurse in this bb. i can say that never have i come across anyone else comparing these nurses to a non skilled worker and even suggesting that we are not professionals.

this is a discussion forum, everyone's opinion should be allowed. period.... i invite you to continue to join us and see the support given to each other and the wonderous feeling of being able to vent in a supportive environment

but please... references to lack of professionalism and mcdonalds is exactly what's not needed. your opinions will never "make (you) an object of derision, but insulting the people here may.

mark_LD_RN · Aug 12, 2002

ZYANYA

i wish i was a great as you if i happen to become as good a nurses and person as you ,is there room in your ivory tower for me?

you need to read some of the posts more clearly we are far from whiny about the patients and visitors. you don't have a clue what the real world is like. how many times have i had a patient ask for visitors to leave and they refuse? more than i care to count. how many times have visitors got in the way during a delivery gone bad. more than i care to count. open your eyes !

i am a patient advocate and love patints and visitors, i know what it is like to be a patient and a visitor. but i would never impose like some of theses visitors do. and it is only getting worse. most think we are here to wait on them and that everything needs to be now. how often do i go in a room to check on my patient and ask if i can get her something and the whole clan chimes in and starts placing orders.way to often.

well i will get off the soap box now.

oh by the way ZYANYA, Are you or were you ever a nurse? tell the truth now.

OBNURSEHEATHER · Aug 12, 2002

Originally posted by zyanya
Well, I can't say I've been in an acute care setting in 5 years...

Nuff said! Honey, when you have the balls to come back to the bedside, we'll still be here, ready to listen to you when you need to vent.

Heather

MQ Edna · Aug 12, 2002

Originally posted by OBNURSEHEATHER

Nuff said! Honey, when you have the balls to come back to the bedside, we'll still be here, ready to listen to you when you need to vent.

Heather

OMG Heather, you kill me! lmao I totally agree with you, too.

Laura

aus nurse · Aug 12, 2002

oh by the way ZYANYA, Are you or were you ever a nurse? tell the truth now.

Hmm zyanya I would be interested too to hear the answer. And i would like to say...don't patronise me till you have walked a mile in my shoes

Cascadians · Aug 12, 2002

With some visitors, it doesn't matter how much time you spend with them, explaining everything. They have their own desired action and no amount of reason or logic will dissuade them.

We'll never forget one night the Visitor From Hell appeared. On Adult Oncology, a woman was taken into surgery and sent right back to the floor. When they opened her up they saw the cancer had spread throughout her abdominal region and it was too involved to do anything about. The surgeons stated she almost died in surgery and would die any minute. Her estranged son came into the room and stated that she was to be buried in another state and he did not want to pay the money for transport, so he was going to just sling her over his shoulder and drive her there himself. We each talked long and kindly to him explaining that his desired action was not appropriate.

With 23 other pts on the floor, all busy vomiting, squirting, falling, pulling their lines and repeat-pushing their call lights, we did not have time to babysit this son. Ended up having to call the House Supervisor to keep him from literally dragging his mother out of the room. BTW, it took her 4 days to die, on morphine, no other care, and after she passed on she lay there for HOURS with the door open (we were off those days and happened to come on the floor for an in-service and closed her door and asked some questions).

Visitors like these, and being too frantically rushed and hectic with too many severely ill patients, accumulates the tension and unwillingness to babycoddle hordes of people who are all too quick to demand and criticize instead of helping or staying out of the way during crucial moments.

We personally feel that with the shortage, a patient should always have a family member / friend in their hospital room as an advocate, but never as an obstacle to nursing care. What total relief we'd feel whenever there was a calm, considerate caregiver with the patient who respected the workers, kept company with the patient, and tended to all the little things the patient needed that nursing staff no longer had time to accommodate.