No nursing jobs in 2012 ???

nyteshade, BSN · Oct 24, 2009

It shouldn't matter because the world is ending in 2012 anyway lol, so there...

MedSurgeMess · Oct 24, 2009

Well, i rather get accurate info from those other sations who aren't into scare tactics, outright LIES!, and stupid conspiracy theories like fake news. everytime, everyday, they are bashing the president because they want to see him fail and if that means the rest of america too, then so be it.

I hate to say it, but the American media is very biased from both sides, and very well censored. I listen to NPR (national public radio for those of you who don't know) where they carry BBC and other European, African and Asian news services. I've also lived in Europe courtesy of the US Army and had the privilege of varying world views. Those who have listened to NPR on a regular basis know just how much our media and government keep from us, and it isn't restricted to one political party, or even one branch of government....I commend anyone who is educating themselves via the Internet, journals, radio and tv. And no, I'm not saying that NPR doesn't have slants and biases in their programs, but they usually have a "counter" program or guest to balance out the views so that you can at least form ideas to investigate.

d'cm · Oct 24, 2009

It shouldn't matter because the world is ending in 2012 anyway lol, so there...

You're right, I always forget that! ROFL.

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 24, 2009

Please look forward two years...do you think the job market (for RN's) will be worse than it is now? Of course the question is hypothetical, but I'm really concerned with socialized medicine and low wages for nurses.
Thanks for your comment!

*** First of all what is "socialized" medicine? If you are referring to the types of health care system enjoyed citizens of countries like New Zealand, Norway, Japan and others then I would say the best thing that could happen to RNs would be to implement similar health care. Nurses in those countries make more money and have better benefits (and in some case pay less taxes) than we do.

However that's not going to happen anytime soon. Nobody is even talking abou it.

anonymurse · Oct 24, 2009

Please look forward two years...do you think the job market (for RN's) will be worse than it is now? Of course the question is hypothetical, but I'm really concerned with socialized medicine and low wages for nurses.

You're right to be concerned, but IMO for the wrong reasons. I'd be concerned because the economy ought to hit rock bottom maybe 2 to 5 years from now. It's due for another jolt right about now, but that won't be the bottom. If I were in your place, I'd try to borrow as little money as possible and complete my studies as soon as I could. You may wish to explore jobs in the public sector--military or veterans nursing (Federal) or prison nursing (State). They probably can't just close facilities, and probably have to have so many nurses for a given population no matter what, plus the bennies and retirement plans are less prone to evaporating than private sector bennies and retirement plans.

RN <>< · Oct 25, 2009

"I'm sorry is "Don't Drink the Kool-Aid" a therapeutic response?"
No, I'm sorry. I didn't realize the forum was for therapeutic responses only. I must have missed that instruction.

You are so right no rules here, but just a reflection of how you treat people.

stephenfnielsen · Oct 25, 2009

Nurses in those countries make more money and have better benefits (and in some case pay less taxes) than we do.

I have been casually looking for some comparative statistics on nurses wages between countries for a while now. It is my suspicion that the above quote is dead wrong, but I would be interested to know for sure. Can someone post something that supports or denies this claim?

cannulator · Oct 25, 2009

I do not have any statistics regarding nursing salaries in countries with a universal healthcare system, but I do have personal experience. I worked in the NHS in England, and my salary was much less than I had made in the Washington D.C. area prior to moving to London for my husband's job. I worked as an Oncology chemotherapy nurse in both places. Even with the exchange rate, my salary was about 1/3 less than in D.C.My taxes were substantially higher, with about 35% being taken off the top for various social programs - mostly healthcare, from what I was told. Since i was wroking there more for the "experience" than the salary, I was ok with it. But in 2001, the statitics were that only 1 in 10 nurses in London were British - the low salaries and high cost of living prohibited local nurses from working in the City. The vast majority were foreign-born, recruited from English speaking countries from all over the world (Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, the Phillipines). All of the nurses that I worked with were really excellent clinicians, but there was some resentment from patients in understanding the various accents (including mine :)

The poster who questioned the necessity of nurses providing customer service would have been pleased to work in the UK. While pleasant enough, I think we would term the nurses "cold" or "indifferent". I often wondered if it was this way in an Oncology hospital, what would the ER be like? There was no liability to worry about in the UK - at first, it was "freeing" not to worry about frivolous patient lawsuits or angry patients who had waited 8 hours to get their chemo. After a short time, however, it was obvious that the nurses were shaped by their indifference, and that the lack of consequence for rude behavior made for callous treatment of patients. In a strange way, I believe that the subconscious fear of litigation forces us to be more humane and empathetic to our patients....over time, we become better people, as well as better nurses.

The drugs available on the formualry in the UK did not include many standard chemo drugs we used in the U.S. in 2001. Too expensive for the NHS to provide for the whole country. Nine years later, I am sure they are available now, but others that I give everyday where I work now are not (Avastin is an example, which in combination with other chemo drugs is used in many different types of cancer).

I do not want to give the impression that I disagree witth the notion of universal healthcare, because I loved the part of working there in which I did not have any reason to know a patients' insurance status. When working in this system, you are allowed to only care for a patients' needs without regard to payment status.Even though you may be required to work with more limited resources, that is a good feeling. But I think there will be huge adjustments to make, on both the nursing and patient side, if we go forward with a massive change in this country. My guess is that salaries will be lower, staffing will be reduced, services will be cut,waits will be longer (again - just what I experienced, both as staff and pt in the UK). People will get used to it, as will nurses. The main thing I learned there was that I can work effectively in any kind of healthcare system.

(Just as an aside, I also lived in japan in the 90's......the poster who stated that Japan is a no-frills hospital environnment was exactly right. The pts family had to provide round the clock care to the pts, including bringing meals and giving baths. I has a friend who was admitted to a local hospital, and the Dr would not talk to her directly....he would only discuss HER medical condition with her husband!! This was in 1993, for heaven's sake:)

stephenfnielsen · Oct 25, 2009

To: PMFB-RN

RE: Nursing wages

http://www.worldsalaries.org/professionalnurse.shtml

According to this site US nurses make more than anywhere else in the world.

Question- if the US adopts a health care delivery system similar to other developed nations will US nurse wages become similar to foreign nurse wages? Any thoughts?

belgarion · Oct 25, 2009

Kind of hard to make any kind of prediction. You have to compare apples to apples. Some of the countries people hold up a examples have much smaller populations than we do. Some examples are:

Japan - 127 million

Germany - 82 million

United Kingdom - 61 million

France - 65 million

Canada - 33 million

Denmark - 5.5 million

Only China with 1.3 billion and India with 1.1 billion have more people than the U.S. We have 307 million.

Any system that is developed here will be much larger and more complicated than in say, Denmark. How that will effect wages is anybody's guess but I would think they will stay about the same with the operative word being "STAY".

stephenfnielsen · Oct 25, 2009

What degree would you rather be graduating with right now? When taking into consideration cost and convenience of education in relation to wages- nursing is second to none.

PeachPie · Oct 25, 2009

When I graduated from nursing school, I didn't have a job straight off the bat. I had to apply around, get rejected a lot, have a lot of employers tell me that they were looking for experienced people, compete with numerous other applicants, relocate, start entry level at a small LTAC hospital that wasn't great experience but still a job, find out that who you know is more important that what you know, and I had to pay my dues. You know who else has to endure the same? Pretty much everyone else in every other field. To people who have been told that nursing is the ticket, it's a shock.

There will be jobs. There will always be displacement, such as nurses getting too old or injured to work, or people like me who are going to other fields because of the stress and abuse of nursing. There won't be jobs like the nursing school recruiters promise, but there won't be a total glut. You may have to start off working for places desperate enough to hire you, and you'll have to be aggressive and have good luck to get through the bureaucracy of HR and already overworked nurse managers.