New BUSH Overtime TakeBack Law

[alatta58]

HI- from Miami--I read where another writer stated there is no difference between Bush or Kerry concerning this new OT law(actually it is not new it has been a work in progress publicly for about a year. First let me say-Bush said he had to redo it because the old OT law was confusing-I never see what was confusing about the old law-plain and simple-if you worked in excess of 40 hrs. you received OT. This new OT law is a payback to big$$$ contributors to the Bush/Cheney Election in 2000. Nothing more, Nothing less. This TakeBack was hatched by the REPUBLICAN president,congress and senate. They control both houses so the democratic oppostion could push this law back-they tried-Senators- Gebhardt,Kennedy,Kerry,Daschle-but sadly they are in the minority! I am 58 years old so I have seen a lot in my varied working career-I will tell you-starting from the genesis of Social Security and the GI Bill of rights for Veterans, Overtime(created by Pres.F.D.Roosevelt-laws in 1937)-Medicare and Medicaid-created by Pres. L.B.Johnson-1965-democrat. HeadStart for the young Children. The Family Friendly Leave Act-1995-created by Pres. Bill Clinton --where workers can take time off to care for a sick family member--all these laws benefiting us as workers were bitterly opposed by REPUBLICANS and this is fact-Don't beleive me??-check it out for validty in the Federal Register(final record of laws enacted and who did it) and see whose President's Signature is on the Final Legislation.John Kerry stated publicly, for the record, that he will roll this piece of cruel and unfair OverTime Law with the stroke of a pen immediately if elected. It is within his Power, as President! It is sad that only now most nurses are becoming aware of the law-as a year ago-nurses could have mounted a national campaign to pressure their congressmen/women and senators to vote this travesty down. RN's in the VA system will take the hit due to federal laws-the rules say LPN's will not be hit-BUT-I think they will because, speaking from experience, I was a team leader at the VA with two nrsg. assts. under me to supervise and in this case-they could now exclude me from OT. The langauge of this law is extremely vague-and was written this way on PURPOSE-to give management a lot of leeway in denying OT-always a contigency clause for denial.I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised-I hope I am wrong on this one.Unlike the old and clearcut law-OT FOR HOURS WORKED IN EXCESS OF 40-NO CONFUSION THERE! Nurses-educate yourself on the issues this 2004 election because this Election outcome will have Far-Reaching ramifications on your working career and Retirement Options. Bush has toyed around with the idea of raising the age at which you can retire and start drawing Social Security-to 68-70 years of age. I don't know about you-I don't want to wait to this age to retire-instead of a gold watch at retirement-they will hand you a pine-box! Democrats are not perfect-BUT compared to their history of passing at least some laws that I mentioned previously that benefit the working middle class, they are heroes in comparison. VOTE DEMOCRAT--VOTE KERRY/EDWARDS 2004 !! (ps-as viet-nam era vet-I can tell you I received 5 medals for my service-4 years active duty in the US Coast Guard-though not of the stature of John Kerry's for sure) Due to the vetting and chain of command involved in granting purple hearts,bronze and silver star medals-NO ONE could get all these medals unless they really earned and deserved them-the circumstances are reviewed up the chain of command-as a check to weed out non-meritorius claims and this is how it must be-Kerry got those Medals because he earned them-Plain and Simple-he may have other faults but this is not one of them! That group "Not-so Swift boat Vets is disengenous and should be ashamed of themselves! John Kerry had connections politically at that time and could have got out of vietnam for sure. Instead he volunteered for this dangerous duty with the extremely high possibility of getting shot and killed-I cannot imagine anyone putting themselves in Harm's Way just for Political Gain. Contrast Kerry's service to George(no show) Bush who is unable to account for his Guard Duty in 1971-72-now that is a point of discussion and deserves the process of discovery)To be honest- I served my country in this era(1965-69) and when I returned home -I had different thoughts about vietnam also-and was it WORTH it? I do not think so-55000 americans killed and vietnam went communist anyway a shortime later-so what did all those americans die for?? I hope Iraq does not evolve into the same situation but as it looks now, who knows...meanwhile Osama Bin Laden continues his plans for us....God Bless the USA from MiamiMike,Nurse:coollook:

[will7678]

I for one am still waiting until I see someone post that they have actually been denied time and half for overtime in a situation where they would have been paid time and a half before. With everyone saying that we are all in danger of losing our OT I still have yet to hear of anyone being denied OT by their employer.

Quote:

If any of these "learned" professional RNs vote for Bush after this, I don't want them caring for me in a hospital setting.

Some of these learned professionals may vote on the basis of the whole picture and not just one law that they may or may not agree with.

:balloons: :balloons:

[TexasPoodleMix]

Can someone please explain all of this to me in simple terms. I have a severe headache right now and don't feel like reading through all of it.

[mariedoreen]

Sure, they could make all RNs salaried and remove OT pay, but that was ALWAYS an option and it didn't happen under the new regulations, why would it happen now?

The difference is that now they don't have to make you salaried.. they just need to classify your position under "professional" (something not unexpected for nursing) and according to this law they do not then have to pay you overtime. So, all those mandated hours you work in excess of 40 each week could be compensated only at straight time. Those under union protection however will not be affected... but the concern is that as time goes on and this becomes more common place you'll be up against a fight during contract re-negotiations as the hospitals attempt to have your OT compensation eradicated. The worry is that they will cite "industry standard" and go after its removal with a vengence.

Of course hype is always high during a time of change... true. However, this particular change in OT laws was NOT made in the best interests of American workers, but in the best interests of the corporate bottom line.

Kerry in Nov.

[mariedoreen]

some of these learned professionals may vote on the basis of the whole picture and not just one law that they may or may not agree with.

quote]

oh i do hope so. the whole picture is truly what americans need to be focused on here. it's incredibly frightening.

kerry in nov.

[mariedoreen]

This is just my opinion, but personally I do not want to work overtime and I would assume that most people don't enjoy working overtime. I would think that places who rely heavily on FT nurses working over time on a regular basis would become forced to simply hire more PT or FT nurses to work and pay them at the regular rate..equals more jobs in my mind. Again, I have not heard from anyone that this is going to happen!

Actually some feel that employers will lose the incentive to bring new employees in. Why should they pay benefits or go to the expense of retaining another employee (continuing education, etc..) when they can mandate existing employees into 40+ hours and then pay them straight time? Anyway... only time will tell what employers do with the new wiggle room in the OT laws. Concerning however, is that the bottom line is usually the basis for most of these kinds of decisions..

[directcare4me]

I'm sure I must be missing something. After reading the blurb on the government DOL website, I still don't see that they can stop paying me overtime. Yes, I fit in all the categories that describe exempt employees, but I am paid hourly. The very first sentence says that registered nurses who are paid hourly should still receive overtime. That to be exempt from overtime one must be salaried or on a fee basis. So what am I missing, what have I not seen yet?

[will7678]

some of these learned professionals may vote on the basis of the whole picture and not just one law that they may or may not agree with.

quote]

oh i do hope so. the whole picture is truly what americans need to be focused on here. it's incredibly frightening.

kerry in nov.

we may not agree on who to vote for but at least we agree that one issue does not a make a good (or bad) president. i will be voting for bush for many reasons (not going to hijack thread with all my views). if that means i will have less money in my pocket well thats ok because in the end there are other things that are going to be more important in the long run.

[pickledpepperRN]

http://www.calnurse.org/press/082304.html

California Nurses Association

Denounces Bush's New Overtime Pay Takeaway

Unpaid mandatory overtime compromises patient care and will drive RNs out of the profession.

The new federal overtime provisions, effective today threatens the right of Registered Nurses to receive overtime compensation and eliminates incentives for hospitals to address adequate staffing, the California Nurses Association said today.

"The overtime protections guaranteed to Registered Nurses for decades by federal law is now at risk for hourly and salaried nurses in union and non-union settings across America" said CNA Executive Director Rose Ann DeMoro. "This removes an important incentive that has restricted employers in the past from forcing nurses to work excessive overtime."

Registered Nurses are absent from the group of professions whose overtime pay is protected including fire fighters and police. CNA disputes claims by the Department of Labor that the changes only affect the ability of salaried non-union Registered Nurses to receive overtime.

"Though our members are protected for the moment by stringent language in our collective bargaining agreements backed by state overtime law, there are now no federal guarantees," DeMoro said. "Preserving overtime in a contract may now be used to force concessions in other areas during bargaining as employers are now doing with health care takeaways. This is an unacceptable step backwards for patient safety and for the advancement of the profession."

One change of concern to nurses is the addition of an exempt employee called a "team leader" defined simply as one who leads a team of other employs in completing a major project and who doesn't have to have direct supervisory responsibility. Hospitals have used the title in the past to attempt to classify RNs as supervisors and thus ineligible for union representation

"With the new RN staffing ratios and improved retirement benefits we have just begun to see results in terms of improved patient care and RN retention and recruitment in our hospitals throughout the state," said CNA President Deborah Burger, RN. "Scientific studies have proven time and again the direct correlation between forcing nurses to work excessive hours and poor patient outcomes."

CNA said the curtailment of overtime protection is part of a pattern of a growing erosion of other rights of working people under the Bush Administration. That trend is especially evident in federal labor law where administration appointees to the National Labor Relations Board have steadily weakened decades of protections for employee rights.

In recent months the National Labor Relations Board:

* Made moves to bar representation when a majority of workers signed cards requesting to join a union

* Allowed one employer to fire an entire RN bargaining unit, and another to withdraw union recognition -both on the basis of minor technicalities.

* Eliminated labor law rights for graduate student workers have been eliminated

* Weakened remedies for Labor Law violations

The California Nurses Association is the largest and fastest growing professional RN union in the nation representing 58,000 Registered Nurses in 165 facilities throughout the state.

[Todd SPN]

I was t/w a coworker about the possibility that RNs may lose the time and one half pay. His response opened my eyes, yet I wonder about the ramifications years down the road for nurses. He is an immigrant with a wife and eight children. In the country he came from he worked construction starting at 6 in the morning and ended at 10 at night. He came to this country, enrolled in school, worked hard and after a year of nursing classes took the PN/NCLEX. Finished up his nursing classes in June and passed the RN/NCLEX just this month. Now he has his sights on the American dream--home ownership. This guy works extra shifts no matter which ones they are. I, having experienced union shops when they had clout, health insurance that cost me nothing out of pocket, covered 100%, even dental, 30 cent a gallon gas when I was making $9 per hour, a paid up mortgage so a 40 hour work week suits me just fine, but if I work over I want time and one half like I grew up with, figured he might be troubled by the new overtime laws. His response was, "No matter." Even when we did the math figuring one extra shift x52 weeks is over 4k lost in time and one half wages vs straight time he had the same response. Can anyone tell me if this is typical thinking among foreign nurses?

[kevagonia]

woah! not good. it matters to him, he;s just willing to settle, maybe? Hey, i work hard for my overtime and consider it a MAJOR affront that someone would rob us of this. If they take it, I WILL not work more than 40 hours, I will move on, I will do something else.

[jwk]

I was t/w a coworker about the possibility that RNs may lose the time and one half pay. His response opened my eyes, yet I wonder about the ramifications years down the road for nurses. He is an immigrant with a wife and eight children. In the country he came from he worked construction starting at 6 in the morning and ended at 10 at night. He came to this country, enrolled in school, worked hard and after a year of nursing classes took the PN/NCLEX. Finished up his nursing classes in June and passed the RN/NCLEX just this month. Now he has his sights on the American dream--home ownership. This guy works extra shifts no matter which ones they are. I, having experienced union shops when they had clout, health insurance that cost me nothing out of pocket, covered 100%, even dental, 30 cent a gallon gas when I was making $9 per hour, a paid up mortgage so a 40 hour work week suits me just fine, but if I work over I want time and one half like I grew up with, figured he might be troubled by the new overtime laws. His response was, "No matter." Even when we did the math figuring one extra shift x52 weeks is over 4k lost in time and one half wages vs straight time he had the same response. Can anyone tell me if this is typical thinking among foreign nurses?

It's typical among people who are used to actually WORKING for a living and not used to having things handed to them. It's a very refreshing attitude, and it's a shame that YOU can't see it for that. I have FMG physicians working in our hospitals as surgical assistants because they can't get licensed here. They work long hours, but make far more than they ever did in their home countries, and are THRILLED to be here.

The costs of everything go up. If companies can't make a profit, they go out of business. Unions don't seem to really care about that. Witness the Delta pilots union as Delta struggles to keep out of bankruptcy. The Delta pilots are the highest paid in the industry. Who looks cheap in all this? It ain't Delta.

Do any of you remember Eastern Airlines? A company can't lose money forever. Sooner or later, it will die.

And how much do you pay in union dues? Wouldn't it be nice if you just had that money in your pocket? I've never seen the point of unions, particularly with professionals, and particularly in this day and age.

It's real simple folks.

Nurses aren't going to lose their overtime. THERE'S A NURSING SHORTAGE. Supply (limited) and demand (huge) control the nursing marketplace. If you don't like the employer you're working for, there is usually one right down the street very eager to hire you.

Cite me one example of an RN who has lost their overtime because of this. You can't. It hasn't happened. The change in the OT laws have been published for months. If hospitals were going to change things, they would have had it be effective this past Monday. They didn't - they can't. They need their nurses.

[jwk]

woah! not good. it matters to him, he;s just willing to settle, maybe? Hey, i work hard for my overtime and consider it a MAJOR affront that someone would rob us of this. If they take it, I WILL not work more than 40 hours, I will move on, I will do something else.

You haven't lost anything! You haven't been robbed of anything.

And he's not settling. He understands what work is. He has to feed his family. He obviously prefers to do that instead of whine and collect welfare. He should be applauded for his work ethic, not criticized because YOU think he's settling and somehow taking something away from you. I'm sure he has no problems with self-respect.