Need advice...life threatened by pt's family today

Nurses General Nursing

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Hi all,

I'm a charge RN at a chronic hemodialysis unit for a major dialysis group. We have a pt who's 16 with not only a slew of health problems but also some major psycho-social issues that extend to her mother and grandfather (who was found to actually be her father through dna testing at their prior clinic). To paint a clear picture of this family would take a while, so I'll cut to the chase. The grandfather today stated to 2 of our patients in the lobby that I would not be at that clinic past September and that he was going to bring in a gun and shoot me. This was after appx 1 hour of time spent by myself and my administrator talking with the mother and grandfather...talkng is actually too nice a word...this was more a pointless rambling by both about everything from our request that the mother remain in the waiting room during the pt's put on and take off to their mistrust of the black nurses in the facility. Both the grandfather and mother are those types of people we as nurses dread dealing with b/c they are completely irrational and skip from topic to topic...they are definitely not operating with a full deck, not to mention the whole incest issue. They've been disruptive to other patients and have bad mouthed the care received at our clinic to the transportation drivers, other pts, anyone who will probably listen, which has no basis at all...all of our other pts love our clinic and look forward to spending time with our staff. We've gone out of our way to accomodate the special needs of the pt and the family since their family dynamic is such a complicated one, all with the best interest of the 16 yo pt in mind.

Anyway, after I was told of this threat by the pts who he told, I immediately told my FA, the MD medical director, and the FA who's over ours and 4 other clinics. She contacted risk mgmt...we were told this afternoon that the police dept was contacted and a complaint filed, the mother and grandfather were contacted separately & told that the g'father was banned from our clinic/parking lot/grounds, etc and that 911 would be called immediately if he came onto our property, an armed security guard will be in our clinic on Friday and all next week. Of course the g'father denied the threats. However, he is so off his rocker, he is just the type of loose cannon that you'd see on the news. These people are just plain crazy.

My question is, how do I deal with this?!? The g'father stated to our senior FA that he thought I was a 'jellyfish' b/c I was letting a newly hired FA 'run all over me' (who is black)...she's not running all over me, she's the boss! This is the same reason he gave to the other 2 pts for killing me. I am scared and hurt b/c I just do not understand his screwed up rationale...I know you can't try to understand the thought process of a crazy person, but I just don't get it. I have never done anything to this family and have bent over backwards to accomodate them and their screwed up situation, have listened when I was ready to pull my hair out, and still been nothing but kind. So I'm hurt as well, I suppose.

Also, what are my rights as a nurse? Do I have the right to refuse to interact with them or does that go out the window when you're the charge nurse? Should I take advantage of the ECP counseling thing or whatever it's called lest this come back to rear it's head with me 5 years down the road?

Any input is appreciated here...sorry for the length...:sniff:

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I don't understand why this crazy man wants to shoot you. I think that everything you did was the right thing in calling the police, etc. As to what are your rights as a nurse, I don't know if you can refuse care. However, seeing that this man threatened your life I don't think that if you did refuse care it would be brought against you.

This family sounds like they have some serious problems. It is definetely hard to reason with them, if not impossible. I think that your managers, etc. are doing the right thing by banning him from your facility.

What a tough situation.

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Oh my goodness! Wow. I am only a student so I'll let the others give you more educated advise. I just want to offer you encouragement. Don't let this lunatic put fear into your head/heart and just continue to do your best. Just take a deep breath when you get ready to go into work tomorrow and remember that it's a whole new day! And I would definitely think that there is SOMETHING that someone above you could/would be willing to work you on as far as a request to not be directly involved with this situation anymore due to the circumstances. Let everyone think what they may (because we know you can't stop that) but, I personaly wouldn't want anything to do with this situation after something like that .. then again, I AM only a student right now. :) I look foward to reading the advice of others in regards to this for future reference if something like this (God forbid) were to ever arise in my life as a Nurse later on. Good luck and please keep us posted on the situation later on!

*Michael. (aka. "Mew")

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this guy could be a stupid kook who is shooting off his mouth and he could very well be a guy that you see on the tv news after he carries out his threat

you should not be required to take any chances...if the clinic can not shift the patient to another of their clinics or shift you if you could accomodate the change then walk out the door..you do not deserve to live in fear or to put your life in danger for any job or any patient no matter how needy

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This is the same reason he gave to the other 2 pts for killing me. I am scared and hurt b/c I just do not understand his screwed up rationale...I know you can't try to understand the thought process of a crazy person, but I just don't get it.

is it because you're the person who he can identify - therefore you're the target, no matter what the issue is. (in his mind, something's not right, and he has to find somewhere to place his anger/frustration/etc. - he's trying to find some way for himself to control the situation - but his way - clearly won't solve the problems, his way will only create MORE problems - for everybody).

Is there someone who can work with him to help him sort out what the problems are, and find some other ways to handle things. He's only going to hurt people. Is there counselling/social work/psych nurse/psychiatrist to contact him before he becomes obsessed?

What would you like to do?

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Specializes in Hospice, Med/Surg, ICU, ER.

The same advice applies to nurses and non-nurses alike: Get a firearm, a CCW permit, and training in how to use it.

Irrational people do irrational things, the police cannot be everywhere, and average response time is 4-6 minutes from a 911 call.

You DO NOT have to live in fear, and just because you're a nurse doesn't mean you should be defenseless in case this nutcase hides out down the street and follows you home one evening after work! :eek: The armed guard for a week will do you no good next month or at the gas station on the way home.

Stay safe and remember: it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

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what is this nurse expected to do with a firearm?

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Specializes in Hospice, Med/Surg, ICU, ER.
what is this nurse expected to do with a firearm?

Legally, the term is known as "self-defense"; however, I call it putting down a rabid dog when he comes snarling and foamin'-at-the-mouth at you.

Any threats of bodily harm made against you should be taken seriously - only a fool would remain unprepared to defend themselves in the face of such a threat. This yoyo was apparently unconcerned with voicing his threats to anyone who would listen - he obviously isn't concerned about legal repercussions.

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Specializes in Neuro/Med-Surg/Oncology.

Protect herself when work can't. The armed security guard isn't going to be with her 24/7.

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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

Wow.:eek:

Personally, if I were in charge of your facility, I would make sure other dialysis accommodations were made for this family STAT. Nobody should have to put up with death threats, no matter how 'off their rocker' someone is; the whole fam-dam-ly sounds dangerously unstable, and your employer owes it to all of you to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

Failing that, your facility should obtain a restraining order against the grandfather barring him from coming within a certain distance of either the property or anyone employed there; if he does, he can be arrested and jailed. I agree, there's no reasoning with someone as deranged as this man---the threat has to be neutralized somehow, and while you can't beat someone over the head with a restraining order, at least you can call the police.

FWIW, I can relate to the fear and anger you must be feeling. Years ago, I was working on the OB floor when a new father who'd just been told he couldn't see his crack-addicted newborn---placed in state custody at birth---came to the desk and told me he was going home to get his gun, and if I or anyone else tried to stop him from going into the nursery, he'd shoot us.

He left; of course, the instant the elevator door closed I was on the phone with the nursing supervisor, hospital security, and the police, and when he came back there were no fewer than eight people (four of whom had guns of their own) who were ready and waiting for him. They pulled him into an unoccupied room and searched him---as it turned out, he was still unarmed---and eventually talked him down; still, none of us who were there that night will ever forget what it felt like to be threatened with death for doing our job.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with all this; sure, the guy could just be blowing off steam, but who wants to take that chance? The news is filled with stories of folks just like him who get a wild hair up their keisters for any reason or no reason; I hope your employer takes the threat seriously and takes appropriate action to protect you and the rest of the staff and patients.

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OK. First off in my state, if someone threatens someone else w/harm it's cause for 72 hour lock up and, psych eval...I'm surprised someone didn't do it. And likewise, threatening someones life is an arrestable offense if proven. Beyond that You need to change jobs. it's not worth the risk. And then your company needs to call CPS good grief..incest. The girls 16 and not dealing with a full deck CPS needs to be involved if there is DNA proof (and since when do they do that for hemo? first I've heard, that's new to me!). So, not only does that girl need to be removed from that home, via CPS... but you need a different job and that guy if there are witnesses to testify needs to be locked up and psych evaled. But YOU need to get out of there. Not worth the risk. And comment on the gun thing...if you shoot someone, and you can't proove 100 percent it was absolutely necessary for self defense you could go to jail. Is it worth that. No. So make sure if you use it...you HAVE to use it. Better to remove yourself, and push those authorities to stay on that case cuz they get lazy.

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Specializes in Hospice, Med/Surg, ICU, ER.
And comment on the gun thing...if you shoot someone, and you can't proove 100 percent it was absolutely necessary for self defense you could go to jail.

This depends entirely on the State and/or Locality where you live. What you NEVER hear in the media is that the vast majority of the people that are arrested in justified deadly-force incidents are either no-billed by the grand jury, found not guilty by a jury, or the DA declines to prosecute. Most people that would make the threats that the OP outlined have a long history of trouble with the law and with other people; and that all is taken into account when a case is made for self-defense.

Lemme tell you something: I have been a CCW holder for many years - long before it became fashionable in many places. If someone threatens you, in front of witnesses, in MOST places you are legally justified in planting them RIGHT THERE. States like LA now have the "make my day" law, where you can shoot someone for mere "menacing"; States like FL that have removed the "imminent injury" provisions from their jusified deadly-force laws. Many other States have codified that you do NOT need to retreat from a threat before responding. Jurisdictions all over the Nation have made it easier to get a CCW permit for the reasons I mentioned in my first post in this thread. I never leave home w/o my pistol and my AmEx card.

Taking someone's life should always be a last resort, and you should not carry a deadly weapon unless you are prepared to take that step if absolutely necessary. I think my life and my family's lives (as well as my coworker's lives) are worth defending from some deranged slimeball.

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