My professor told us NPs have no future...

[anilechim]

Hi everyone,

I'm just starting out in nursing school. I'm in my first semester, and currently at the tail-end of A&P I. On Tuesday night, one of my classmates asked our professor, who spent the bulk of his career prior to teaching as a scientist for Schering-Plough Research Institute, what a Trump presidency could possibly mean for the future of healthcare professionals. My classmate went on further to ask our professor what he thought a job market in the future would look like for NP's. Before answering the question, our professor went on and on about how MDs and PAs will always be needed, but that he doesn't see a job market for NP's other than as nursing instructors. He was even pretty much shrugging his shoulders and rolling his eyes! This immediately raised a huge red flag for me. I was pretty horrified by how dismissive he was of this career path. He actually said, "yeah, that's an avenue a lot of nurses are taking these days, mainly because it's the only way to advance their careers."

Can he possibly be serious?! And furthermore, is there any truth to his assumption? I personally know two women who were nurses for 20+ years who recently went back to school to pursue DNPs and are currently working in their specialized fields alongside a group of doctors, and they're very happy and successful. I follow multiple nurses on Instagram who have large social media followings who are recent grads/current NP students and none of them have been relegated to teaching because there is "no job market for NPs."

My lab instructor is a highly respected doctor and I plan on discussing this with him tonight, since I'm sure he knows a lot more about this sort of thing than my lecture instructor seems to think he does.

I would love to "hear" your thoughts on this. Personally, I was horrified and quite offended.

[reggaemuffin, MSN, NP, CNS]

He has a point. Just like there is a glut of RNs there will be a glut of NPs which will depress wages and ruin the credibility of NPs. I think you should get a degree in something else, and then go for PA. If being an independent provider is what you want without sacrificing time and money for medical school, you can easily do that without going through nursing, working a crappy nursing job for a year or two after graduation and then getting crappy education and crappy clinical experience to become a NP.[/quote']

You don't have to get a subpar NP education - there are many high quality programs out there. It just involves actual research and work to delineate between the bad and the good. That is a choice and a serious student who wants to learn this profession inside and out has an obligation to take ownership of their own educational experience.

[brap740, BSN, MSN]

PA-usually no real world experience. A bachelor degree in something, and a PA degree.

NP: real world experience as a past RN. Has done the grunt work of healthcare. The doers. They strung up levo and titrated it. They have hours upon hours upon hours of doer experience. The previously employed RN Remind physicians on how to enter their orders correctly and appropriately at times.

PA only has a college education. Last I checked....to manage patient care you should be providing patient care for years first.

NOw who would you hire ? I think it's quite the contrary, maybe the PAs are the ones that might get phased out.

[TiffyRN, BSN, PhD]

Your professor has spent too much time behind the walls of research, and very little time in the clinical world, my dear. He doesn't know what an NP is or does. Why would there be a job market for PAs and not NPs? Either he is ignorant or this ridiculous statement was just planted in this discussion board to stir everyone up. I certainly hope it's just his ignorance and not the latter. Ignorance can be dealt with. Use your critical thinking skills, and evaluate; he may very well be an excellent scientist, but he knows less about nursing than you do. His field is scientific research, not clinical medicine or nursing. Would you believe him if he said there's no future for (let's say) physical therapists? Exactly.

I don't necessarily agree with this professor however, I would point out that if it is true that he is a scientist, with at least a graduate degree, he would have been educated in the ways of critical thinking. It is possible that if he has taken his training and analyzed prospects of NPs in the future it would be worthy to pay attention to his opinion. If he is just spouting off at the mouth with his gut instinct, then his opinion is not better than my friend's child.

And even if he is a nursing god of some kind, you should take his opinion with a grain of salt, look at the sources he cites (if any) and make your own critical evaluation.

Also consider that if the vast majority of pre-nursing students he sees are stating they plan to attend NP school, he may get the impression that this cannot be a sustainable model. I know when I went through nursing school, it seems at least 1/3 of my classmates planned to go to CRNA school but only one ever actually did it.

[TiffyRN, BSN, PhD]

Don't consume all the BS that professor is serving you on the collegiate educated platter. Liberalism is a sickness and its rampant in the colleges.

I laugh at that guy. Just do what they want to get the grade, and think for yourself after you graduate.

"Don't consume all the BS that professor is serving you. . . "

Agree

"Do what they want to get the grade, and think for yourself after you graduate."

Kind of agree, I don't see the harm in thinking for yourself starting now. Showing discretion in how you express your thoughts may serve you best with getting the best grade.

"Liberalism is a sickness and its (sic) rampant in the colleges".

I wish this statement was more specific. Classical liberalism is what inspired the Enlightenment and our Founding Fathers. I've written and re-written what would probably constitute a mini-essay on the this topic, but not the venue. . . Just google classical liberalism and I don't think you'll believe all liberalism is a sickness.

[brap740, BSN, MSN]

I'm saying think for yourself always.

I'm not talking about classical liberalism. Im talking about modern progressive liberalism. It's a sickness. And It doesn't work. The media and colleges are indoctrinating our youth. Injecting small, bits and pieces of subtle progressive agenda. By the time most figure out he truth they're $150,000+ in debt to the system and are clawing their way out in a bitter tone. "But they told me college was gonna be free." "But they told me $15 is a livable wage" butbutbutbut! Big Government. It's not a good thing.

(Oh Im not in debt., nor bitter)

[Nursetonp]

Jules- I agree with you completely. I am looking at the total picture, and am considering the loan repayment amount to be part of my actual hiring package. I am happy to accept something that is well less than the urban areas are paying, because first off, my loans will be almost completely forgiven, AND because serving the area where I am from is important to me. I know the people, the towns, the culture, etc. That is all super important to me, AND it gives my husband and I the opportunity to finally move back HOME-where we were both raised. That said...the difference in pay may seem like a huge amount, but one also has to consider that the cost of living is significantly lower in the small town too. A rural FNP in the small town where I'm from will be offered around 76-83k to start, plus loan forgiveness with 2 years of service. In the urban areas, the starting pay is generally around 90-105k. But, for most classmates of mine, the difference is 'huge' and they are all staying in the large hospitals where they now work as RNs.

you have to be careful with this if it's a government program for the loan forgiveness. My best friend/classmate thought she'd be able to do this, and then even though the clinic she accepted a position with was listed as a qualified place, her, and the NP that worked there both ended up getting screwed on the loan forgiveness part.

[Jules A, MSN]

NP: real world experience as a past RN. Has done the grunt work of healthcare. The doers. They strung up levo and titrated it. They have hours upon hours upon hours of doer experience. The previously employed RN Remind physicians on how to enter their orders correctly and appropriately at times.

Oh how I wish this was still the truth. The sad fact is there are almost no NP programs any longer that require experience in the specialty or even any RN experience at all prior to becoming a prescriber.

PAs on the other hand are educated by the medical model, aka no Advanced Practice Nurses Are So Special courses, or capstone projects on something holistic that no one gives a rip about. PAs are also trained by physicians not fellow inexperienced NPs as so many NP students are now. Finally they have about 4xs as many clinical hours required before they practice under the guidance of a physician. If the choice was blind I'd pick a PA every time over a NP.

[brap740, BSN, MSN]

Personal accountability tells you to apply to a school that will yield a good return. I went through an interview process to be accepted into ACNP school. It demanded a GRE, 3 years minimum of acute care experience. I competed against others GPA. This program is 50% online, 50% in person with about 1200 hours of clinical required to graduate.

Schools that are 100% online and do not require at least 3-5 years bedside experience are a scam. They are just trying to make money. They want you in, they want your fafsa filled out so the big fat gubmint cuts 'em a check.

These schools survive off the government. Of course they're PRO government.(Which makes sense why professors preach modern progressive ideology) What happens to them when uncle sam cuts the cord? They close up shop. *Cough.... ITT tech..Cough*, but they care about the students. Screech, hang on, back it up.....all they really care about is PROFIT.

Nothing wrong with profit in America, if you're going to be a sucker and go to one of those for-profit schools that puts the bottom line over everything, then you can expect the education to SUCK. It's got nothing to do specifically with NP programs or PA programs. It has to do with the College you're signing the promissary note with.

[Jules A, MSN]

Nothing wrong with profit in America, if you're going to be a sucker and go to one of those for-profit schools that puts the bottom line over everything, then you can expect the education to SUCK. It's got nothing to do specifically with NP programs or PA programs. It has to do with the College you're signing the promissary note with.

While I agree with much of your post in my experience many brick and mortar schools with excellent reputations are also churning out NPs with plenty of nursing fluff courses, zero nursing experience, taught by professors with minimal if any actual NP experience and precepted by brand new NPs. If it wasn't for my extensive RN experience in this specialty and long term connections with several excellent psychiatrists I'd be an incompetent mess based on what I did or should I say what I didn't learn from my well respected brick and mortar university. The basic questions I get from new grad NP colleagues are embarrassing.

[KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN]

That professor is welcome to where I am doing my clinicals now to see how things are going in the part of America of which existence he's probably not even aware. Trump country, 60% poverty level, up to 40% adults are on narcs and their combinations, third of them without any transportation at all (with more or less advanced medical center 30 miles or so drive one way), dental and mental health care virtually absent, couple of seniors die every winter because they got trapped by snow in their houses without food, warmth and water, every week about 5 deaths due to overdoses. An NP can get a quite well-paid job right on a spot there because nobody else knows how to even get to know these folks, leave alone explaining them that Norco/Xanax party is over for now.

I convinced so many of them in just a couple of months to try non-pharmacological ways for pain managenet that local church is now opening TWO community yoga classes - one specifically for seniors :)

[brap740, BSN, MSN]

Gorgeous grounds, stone buildings, oak and marble trims.....college football programs that rake in millions....coaches being paid millions.....when it comes down to it, they're out for money. As soon as the government subsidized education the tuition skyrocketed, and quality is...going right down the terlit (toilet) But That's another topic. Sad, but true.

[KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN]

Gorgeous grounds, stone buildings, oak and marble trims.....college football programs that rake in millions....coaches being paid millions.....when it comes down to it, they're out for money. As soon as the government subsidized education the tuition skyrocketed, and quality is...going right down the terlit (toilet) But That's another topic. Sad, but true.

and this is one reason why online education holds so much for the future. No gorgeous grounds, no mandatory "facilities fee", no dorms with jacuzzi, no stupid "societies" and "greek life" to kill time and spend moneys. There are your books, your lectures (available ALWAYS, not once upon a time), your clinicals and your patients - you're here for that, so go for it, forget the rest.

(and, as additional gifts, no whiny and gossipy classmates, no professors "having bad days" and taking proctored exams in comfly pajamas with my hair being colored and dinner getting ready )