My professor told us NPs have no future...

[anilechim]

Hi everyone,

I'm just starting out in nursing school. I'm in my first semester, and currently at the tail-end of A&P I. On Tuesday night, one of my classmates asked our professor, who spent the bulk of his career prior to teaching as a scientist for Schering-Plough Research Institute, what a Trump presidency could possibly mean for the future of healthcare professionals. My classmate went on further to ask our professor what he thought a job market in the future would look like for NP's. Before answering the question, our professor went on and on about how MDs and PAs will always be needed, but that he doesn't see a job market for NP's other than as nursing instructors. He was even pretty much shrugging his shoulders and rolling his eyes! This immediately raised a huge red flag for me. I was pretty horrified by how dismissive he was of this career path. He actually said, "yeah, that's an avenue a lot of nurses are taking these days, mainly because it's the only way to advance their careers."

Can he possibly be serious?! And furthermore, is there any truth to his assumption? I personally know two women who were nurses for 20+ years who recently went back to school to pursue DNPs and are currently working in their specialized fields alongside a group of doctors, and they're very happy and successful. I follow multiple nurses on Instagram who have large social media followings who are recent grads/current NP students and none of them have been relegated to teaching because there is "no job market for NPs."

My lab instructor is a highly respected doctor and I plan on discussing this with him tonight, since I'm sure he knows a lot more about this sort of thing than my lecture instructor seems to think he does.

I would love to "hear" your thoughts on this. Personally, I was horrified and quite offended.

[chiromed0]

Your professor is an wrong. Sorry, just is. NP's will be in high demand for a while to come but it will taper off when the market reaches a saturation point AND the entry level requirement goes fully to DNP. Otherwise, the professors point is a specious argument under any new "Trump" plan or other system. The main driver is cost of healthcare...key word "care"...not "insurance". The "Obamacare" plan is/was a failure b/c it stuck a band aid on a wound and said, "see, it's fixed". Having insurance is not the same as having access to "care". YOU need providers and NP's are the most cost effective providers. PA's will ALWAYS be tied to physicians and that's how it should be b/c their training is the same. You will NOT find as many NP's in surgery or specialties b/c our training primarily is family practice with a lesser number in specialties or acute care. This is ALL speaking in generalities but never-the-less cheaper "care" is what we are after and physicians cost a lot more than non-physicians for mostly the same care. The professor simply doesn't either know what an NP is (in the real world) or doesn't know what they are talking about.

[B52Bomber]

First off that company he researched for would payoff docs just to prescribe their meds (but I'm sure if NPs did he wouldn't be complaining about us being unnecessary to the health care world because we wouldve kept him employed). Also that company held important study information from the public regarding a cholesterol medication - seems rather unethical?

On on another note, he has no idea what he's talking about in relation to the socio-economical needs for NPs and the fiscal gains associated with NPs providing care especially in areas lacking providers... which is probably why he only landed an A&P instructor position to teach NURSES who are needed and gainfully employed.

Lastly, he's a doctor/scientist with an interest in research and creating data that could be applied in the clinical arena. With many physicians leaving primary care/outpatient settings and clinics, who will be there to translate that evidence into practice? I'm a DNP prepared nurse and I'm 27 and I've had a number of physicians and practices reaching out to employ me for the need of a PMHNP. We will always be needed!

[mrl3fnp]

Unfortunately in my area two decent size hospitals I know of are now backing off hiring NPs in an independent role due to an onslaught of new grads who are not prepared to practice after graduation. One is still hiring NPs in ancillary roles for low wages as basically the physician's handmaiden, imo. Where as PAs are going strong in the hospitalist role.

What the H#SF are you talking about.......? As an RN I used to work with many new PAs that didn't know much more than CNAs in certain areas of health care........PAs vs. NPs will ALWAYS come down to who is qualified and knowledgeable and not the letters behind the name.........This paper mill NP baloney is just that.....baloney.......If you prepare and work hard it doesn't matter which university you get your paper at.......! You can BANK this answer and move on to the next......!

[Jules A, MSN]

What the H#SF are you talking about.......? As an RN I used to work with many new PAs that didn't know much more than CNAs in certain areas of health care........PAs vs. NPs will ALWAYS come down to who is qualified and knowledgeable and not the letters behind the name.........This paper mill NP baloney is just that.....baloney.......If you prepare and work hard it doesn't matter which university you get your paper at.......! You can BANK this answer and move on to the next......!

Ahhhh both objective and scholarly...makes me so proud, lol. I simply posted what has actually happened in my area with regard to unprepared NPs not working out at two local facilities so I'm not sure where your confusion lies.

[nehneh14]

I'm saying think for yourself always.

I'm not talking about classical liberalism. Im talking about modern progressive liberalism. It's a sickness. And It doesn't work. The media and colleges are indoctrinating our youth. Injecting small, bits and pieces of subtle progressive agenda. By the time most figure out he truth they're $150,000+ in debt to the system and are clawing their way out in a bitter tone. "But they told me college was gonna be free." "But they told me $15 is a livable wage" butbutbutbut! Big Government. It's not a good thing.

(Oh Im not in debt., nor bitter)

Oh, please. Paranoid and hyperbolic much? The anti-intellectualism and racism of the right is how we've now wound up with a fascist ignoramus and a group of stooges for the next 4 years. Liberalism isn't our problem. Ignorance, gullibility, greed and lack of critical thinking skills are.

[nehneh14]

Gorgeous grounds, stone buildings, oak and marble trims.....college football programs that rake in millions....coaches being paid millions.....when it comes down to it, they're out for money. As soon as the government subsidized education the tuition skyrocketed, and quality is...going right down the terlit (toilet) But That's another topic. Sad, but true.

It's unfortunate that not everyone in our country has the opportunity to experience a four year college education. The intellectual and social growth one experiences and achieves as a result of learning and living amongst a diverse group of students from all over the world is in many ways priceless and unquantifiable. The value of my degree far exceeds my ability to procure employment in the field of my choosing. I agree the emphasis and money involved with collegiate athletics is ridiculous, but it's impact pales in comparison to the scientific breakthroughs, academic achievements and accumulated knowledge which benefits mankind and all of our futures. These things just cannot be replicated or achieved via online courses or associate level degree courses. My big 10 university just lost it's ranking as a research university, for the first time in it's history. It's a devastating blow to a university which has brought about some of the most important scientific discoveries of our times. In January, we are losing 2 world renowned faculty members to a university in CA because their department was devastated by budget cuts. They chose to move on and now the whole department is closing. All courtesy of our republican legislature and Governor. It doesn't sound like you were either able or capable of experiencing a university education and that's a shame. But don't be so susceptible to drinking the anti-intellectualism Kool-Aid of the right in this country. The right has all but the 1% of this country involved in a race to the bottom. Universities and higher education is one of the best weapons available with which to fight their insidious agenda of keeping the populace dumb and disenfranchised. Don't carry their water for them.

[Aromatic]

It's unfortunate that not everyone in our country has the opportunity to experience a four year college education. The intellectual and social growth one experiences and achieves as a result of learning and living amongst a diverse group of students from all over the world is in many ways priceless and unquantifiable. The value of my degree far exceeds my ability to procure employment in the field of my choosing. I agree the emphasis and money involved with collegiate athletics is ridiculous, but it's impact pales in comparison to the scientific breakthroughs, academic achievements and accumulated knowledge which benefits mankind and all of our futures. These things just cannot be replicated or achieved via online courses or associate level degree courses. My big 10 university just lost it's ranking as a research university, for the first time in it's history. It's a devastating blow to a university which has brought about some of the most important scientific discoveries of our times. In January, we are losing 2 world renowned faculty members to a university in CA because their department was devastated by budget cuts. They chose to move on and now the whole department is closing. All courtesy of our republican legislature and Governor. It doesn't sound like you were either able or capable of experiencing a university education and that's a shame. But don't be so susceptible to drinking the anti-intellectualism Kool-Aid of the right in this country. The right has all but the 1% of this country involved in a race to the bottom. Universities and higher education is one of the best weapons available with which to fight their insidious agenda of keeping the populace dumb and disenfranchised. Don't carry their water for them.

You overdosed on the kool-aid.

usually statements that throw the blame completely on one political party are not to be taken seriously. Even democratic states have education budget cuts, actually in the past 8 years the price has skyrocketed in college education and it wasnt a republican leading that change. I know people in both parties that are brilliant. Universities are out to make money to fund their research and student loans are that money.

Plus this is a nursing forum, its not like we are making huge giant scientific breakthroughs in butt wiping right?

[Skippingtowork]

Whether you go to on-line NP program or BM program is not relevent. You need good clinical experiences, where you can apply what you learn. RN experience of at least 5 years should be be required for entrance. The universities should provide the clinical rotations, even if they have to pay preceptors. I know NPs who have graduated from on-line school and now are in charge of all the NPs in there group. Just saying!

[casias12]

Whether you go to on-line NP program or BM program is not relevent. You need good clinical experiences, where you can apply what you learn. RN experience of at least 5 years should be be required for entrance. The universities should provide the clinical rotations, even if they have to pay preceptors. I know NPs who have graduated from on-line school and now are in charge of all the NPs in there group. Just saying!

While I agree with this in theory, in practice it just doesn't work.

Witness the number of new NP's that come on here on a daily basis to whine about not being prepared”, doing poorly at their first job, or having offers that are far below what they thought they were worth.

Witness the number of NP students who whine about not being able to find preceptors.

These are people who went into an online program, totally unprepared, and without a plan or a clue.

If someone chooses an online program, they really need to have their ducks in a row”, so to speak, and have a natural drive to succeed. Because sitting in your jammies and waiting for someone to train you, hire you, and pay you well is a fantasy world.

As for me, I am happy it is imploding. It just shows the inherent laziness in the nursing governing bodies” that has brought us to this mess.

[casias12]

Oh how I wish this was still the truth. The sad fact is there are almost no NP programs any longer that require experience in the specialty or even any RN experience at all prior to becoming a prescriber.

PAs on the other hand are educated by the medical model, aka no Advanced Practice Nurses Are So Special courses, or capstone projects on something holistic that no one gives a rip about. PAs are also trained by physicians not fellow inexperienced NPs as so many NP students are now. Finally they have about 4xs as many clinical hours required before they practice under the guidance of a physician. If the choice was blind I'd pick a PA every time over a NP.

I am saddened by our profession, but see the truth in what you say.

Recently, I started a second job being paid to see patients on a per-visit basis. Set your own hours, work as much or as little as you want, etc. The money is good, and adds to my current practice.

This required skills that were not in my skill set at all. I rode with a PA, and 2 NP's, over the course of several days.

NP1 – Sees 5-6 patients per day, spends the entire day telling me how much she hates being an NP. She wishes she had stayed a nurse, making more money and working 3 12's. Clinically, she is ok, but has no patient interaction at all. Just came across as a pouty princess.

NP2 –Sees 6 patients a day, but no more. I just can't make money this way. I made more as a nurse, but ‘they' fired me when I graduated. So now I am stuck with this”. She tells me, Be prepared to work 7 days a week, you will never get time off. You just chart and chart and chart…..”. This was one unhappy person, and the patients had to hear about it at every visit. Her clinical skills were terrible, and she unloaded on every patient.

PA- We saw 16 patients. I'm doing great. Money is good, I love doing what I do, and no one bothers me”. Just me and my patients”. Patients love her. Her clinical skills are top-notch, and her treatment success is very high.

Since starting this several months ago, I have no trouble seeing 5 or 6 patients on a part-time basis, and bringing in an additional 50% of my regular salary. Just sayin'.

[Skippingtowork]

I had a similar conversation with one of my professors recently, but she had a really different opinion than your professor. She teaches PA classes as well and urged me to stay on my track for the following reasons:

1. The world needs smart nurses with curious, medically-geared minds as part of the patient care team, whether it's an office or hospital environment. Making smart people feel like they're wasting their talent by not pursing an MD is a disservice to everyone. They fill different roles, are better suited to different personalities, and have different approaches to patient care. It's crap to make people feel like they're failing because they choose the path that suits the way they want to work and live and care for people instead of the more prestigious one.

2. DNP programs definitely need more medical rigor in them and less theory. Nurses want it. It would help provide even better patient outcomes and give NPs skills they need to do their jobs well. If we want the programs to shift some of the focus and cut out diploma mill options, we need nurses who will drive the change and raise the standards and push for improvements instead of just complaining that the standard should be higher.

3. Knowledgeable and experienced NPs help balance the primary care workload, manage patient education doctors aren't given time to do, and bridge significant gaps in healthcare. While some doctors are angry and vocal about being anti-NP, a lot of them benefit daily from working with NPs and have a lot of gratitude for the role they play. Don't feel like you have to choose between the kind of work you want to do and being respected in your workplace.

I'm not sure how valid these are in practice, but they stand up to logic and anecdotal conversations I've had with doctor and nurse friends. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that the role is shifting and that the education needs to shift with it.

Beautifully said. Reflective and valid. Will post to refrigerator. Thank you.

[ARNP/USFBulls]

He's ignorant.