Hi, all. I'm an LPN student and I need some advice on a moral/ethical issue about one of my classmates.
Some background info: My class is mostly not-your-average students - most of us are in our mid-to-late twenties and early thirties, but quite a few are in their 40's and 50's. We all get a long pretty well - which is a miracle, a whole bunch of women shoved together (there's only one man in our class). Most of us are pretty tight nit and no one goes running to our instructor over little minuscule issues - such as so-and-so's tattoo is showing or so-and-so didn't do that, blah, blah, blah. But I've recently come into some information that is a HUGE issue.
A woman in my class recently told me that she hasn't written a single paper - a woman she works with writes the papers for her. This woman asks my classmate to take her shifts and in exchange for working these shifts, the woman writes the papers for my classmate.
I really like my classmate - but this really, really IRRITATES me. I have been working my butt off - trying to do clinicals, care plans, study for tests, write papers - well, all of you know the workload nursing students deal with. Not only that, but I have a 3 yr old at home and a husband who works sometimes as much as 70 hours a week, give or take. My classmate, on the other hand, has several children but they're all grown (the youngest is 17) and her husband is disabled and receives disability - he stays home all day, does ALL the cleaning and cooking, manages the entire household so that his wife can focus on school. I know it's wrong, but I wouldn't be so irritated if this classmate of mine was a single mom with several kids to raise on her own or something - at least then I could empathize. What makes me even more irritated is that this woman has all this help from her husband, someone else writes her papers for her, and she supposedly has tons of time to study - and she's barely passing!
Anyway, enough of my rambling - what should I do? Should I talk to my instructor face-to-face? Should I leave an anonymous note? Should I send her an email? Should I not tell her at all? Guys, I really don't know what to do. I live in a small town, I have to deal with these women for another 4-5 months and I don't want them to find out and think of me as a snitch - but I really don't think it's fair for someone to be skating by like this when all the rest of us are working our butts off, earning the good grades we receive, and she's having someone else do half the work for her!
Please reply as soon as you can. Thanks for your advice!
Specializes in Medical Surgical/Addiction/Mental Health.
first of all, you are making all kinds of assumptions. none of us know this person, yet you are willing to judge her character. i am surprised that you believe this person would falsify medication records based on the information that she allegedly had somebody write papers for her. nobody knows if that actually happened or not. i am shocked that everyone is prejudging her without knowing her side of the story. maybe there is an explanation. maybe she lied about somebody writing her papers. who knows?
this is what the op said,“a woman in my class recently told me that she hasn't written a single paper - a woman she works with writes the papers for her. this woman asks my classmate to take her shifts and in exchange for working these shifts, the woman writes the papers for my classmate.” i don’t care what her reasons are for having someone else to write her papers. she is wrong for doing it. and if she lied about it, then she is wrong for doing that. that is how i am judging the person. if you lie or cheat, you have a major deficit in your character period!
and to say that i should "reconsider my career choice" because i "think it's childish to rat somebody out" is only considering your narrow point of view. there is no reason to report a student for allegedly cheating when the only evidence is an unsubstantiated rumor. i also find it strange that you would suggest an in-classroom writing assignment in order to try and catch this student cheating. that is very vindictive.
the original post is about an ethical dilemma. since you are a nurse, i am sure you had to study ethics in nursing, right? it is about doing the right thing. if a student suspects cheating of any kind, it is their duty to report it regardless of “proof”. what the school decides to do is up to them, but the student has fulfilled his/her duty. you are correct. my post is strictly my opinion based upon personal experiences, my ethical opinions, and what i have been taught. my cohort requires a writing sample in the beginning of every class so that the professor can determine our writing style. i don’t think it is vindictive at all.
as far as "my responses shedding light on my character", you must live in an idealistic world. in some places, if you report somebody to an authority figure, there may be serious consequences and retaliation. therefore, one learns that "don't snitch" is the way to go. it is very sad that you judge people. what does that say about your character?
this is nothing more than a cop-out. i don’t know where you work, but there are rules in place for retaliation. if the facility doesn’t adhere to them, it’s a class action suit again them. it surprises me to see that you are 30 years old and trying to argue this weak position. i would have thought you would have experienced more in your life. evidently not. i don’t live in an idealistic world. i chose to do the right things and not conform to what others want me to do. living my life this way has served me well.
i guess i am floored that you tried to discredit what i have said with lame statements and comments. i am always open to other’s viewpoints so as long as they are logical, ethical, and make sense. your comments simply don’t make the cut. sorry.
Specializes in Medical Surgical/Addiction/Mental Health.
you guys are missing the point all together. the point is not getting the student in trouble! it is not about having proof. the point is doing the right (ethical) thing, which is what the op stated in her original post.
First I don't need to enlighten everyone because YOU misunderstood my post. Second I am not even going to get into this with you. I gave my opinion on the situation and I addressed your passive aggressive comments towards my post. With that I won't discuss it with you further because it will just be more of the same stuff over and over. You will read into my post no matter what I say. Have a great night!
you guys are missing the point all together. the point is not getting the student in trouble! it is not about having proof. the point is doing the right (ethical) thing, which is what the op stated in her original post.
:up::up::up:
exactly!
it's hard to conceive why this is such a difficult point for folks to understand.
well, i'm a strong believer in karma and when i was faced with the same situation i didn't speak up, and i don't think that put my morals any lower on the totem pole. having proof DOES factor in when you're actually in the situation. it's easy to say it doesn't matter just like it's easy to say "abortion is wrong" or "i don't believe in divorce" until you're the one wearing the shoes.
with the girl i had qualms with, one time she told our professor that she didn't have her assignment (the rules were - no late assignments accepted, you got a zero) because she forgot it at home, but she REALLY did have it - it's just that she lived 45 mins. away and she didn't realize until she got to class she didn't have it, blah blah. i had stayed up most of the night finishing mine and also lived that far away. in reality, she hadn't done the assignment. she didn't have it at home.
if i had told my professor, "sarah told me she didn't do her assignment. she's lying about leaving it at home" what proof would i have? it would be my word against hers. if he pulled her to the side, she would know that one of us who she'd told the truth to told on her and who would benefit in the end?
i agree that if someone has a lack of pride and morals that they are willing to do whatever it takes - that will come back to bite them in the end. it's not going to hurt or improve my life in any way by concerning myself with their lack of ethics.
you know what, i lied - i did speak up. i just searched my email and found a copy of the email i sent to my professor and i'll share it here. i sent the email when i was a couple of weeks away from graduating, and i didn't mention any names or tell on any certain person - i just pointed out that it was a problem within the program.
I am going to print the handouts for Thursday. I didn't realize all of the bibliography information that had to be on the handout until a few minutes before class today. I suggested to Miranda that we just fix it and bring it on Thursday since we didn't have time today, but she was afraid to do that because it would be late. She insisted that it would be okay to email them. I understand what you are saying about it not being fair - i agree.
sidenote: our prof. had told us it wasn't fair for our biblios to e emailed because other people used paper/ink to print theirs out.
Speaking of fairness, there is something I want to say that I hope will come across as respectfully as possible. This isn't directed toward you, but toward the program in general.
Several of us have talked this about with each other, but I don't think it has been brought up to any professors. I guess nobody says anything because maybe it's none of our business, but it is a little discouraging to those of us who take our work seriously and make sacrifices to get work completed and turned in on time to see other people not turning things in and doing just as well as far as grades. I also don't think it's fair to you or any of the other professors, and it's not just in your classes. I am only saying it to you because I don't know who else to tell. There are a few people who have made excuses in every class over the course of the entire program. Not only that, but some students have made comments like, "I didn't even turn in my student portfolio, and I've only turned in 2 reflections," and they think it's funny. At least I assume they find it funny since they smile when they say it. I don't think it's funny at all, and it's actually really disrespectful to the professors and the students who lose sleep and make sacrifices to meet deadlines. One time I drove from my house in (my town) to (my college) for class, and then had to drive back to (my town) because I left an assignment that was due. Then, drive BACK to (my college). I heard someone else say they forgot their assignment, and the professor told them to just turn it in next time - no big deal.
I hope I am not crossing the line, and i definitely don't want to get in trouble for sharing this with you, but I know a lot of people feel this way and we don't know who to say something to or if it's appropriate to say anything at all. Someone suggested we send an anonymous letter, but I think we should be able to come to you all without being afraid. I hope so since I'm the one doing it! It doesn't benefit me in any way to be the one to say it because my classes are almost over. I just think it's something that should be considered by the program in the future.
Here was her response:
About the handouts, I realize yours is long. We can copy it tomorrow with no problem.
I am concerned, too, about the lateness. It will tell in some of the grading here at the end. I think some students have the idea if a bunch of late work is turned in, I will not have time to grade it. However, I do grade it. I could really tell a difference in the videos that I have graded. Some did well; however, those that have been so late with lesson plans, are showing that in their video lesson plan. If someone is close to a cut off point on the grading scale and has been late numerous times, I give them the lower grade. The syllabus does state if the assignment is more than one class period late, 5 points will be deducted. You are right, we do need to abide by this.
One thing I do know, those of you who are conscientious with your work and with learning are going to have a much easier time in student teaching. Numerous students ask me to write letters of recommendations as they apply for teaching positions. I have completed several reference checklists on students for school systems. I am honest as I can be. Teachers need to be the best of the best.
I appreciate your willingness and trust to discuss this with me. I will be meeting with Dr. (blank) tomorrow afternoon about a variety of things. I will discuss this with her, keeping your name out of it. Is seems in the block this happens a lot. Of course, these are the only classes I see.
So, I guess I did take some action even though it didn't directly affect me nor did the particular student I had in mind get "punished." Hopefully, the staff took the issue to heart and future students didn't have to deal with the dilemma so much.
this is nothing more than a cop-out. i don't know where you work, but there are rules in place for retaliation. if the facility doesn't adhere to them, it's a class action suit again them. it surprises me to see that you are 30 years old and trying to argue this weak position. i would have thought you would have experienced more in your life. evidently not. i don't live in an idealistic world. i chose to do the right things and not conform to what others want me to do. living my life this way has served me well.
i guess i am floored that you tried to discredit what i have said with lame statements and comments. i am always open to other's viewpoints so as long as they are logical, ethical, and make sense. your comments simply don't make the cut. sorry.
i find this absolutely hilarious. you know nothing about me. it's not lame to speak the truth about what happens in the real world.
there's no point trying to explain this further. btw, i have experience quite a lot in my 30 years, but there you go making assumptions again.
I disagree, if you don't see someone cheating how do you even know they are cheating. If I am in class an allegedly person A is cheating. I don't see it at all. But person B comes to me gossiping that Person A cheated. So I go and report person A without ever witnessing a thing and with no proof. But I did it off of gossip. Maybe person B was trying to start rumors because they didn't like person A.
This scenario isn't even a test taking scenario. It's an ALLEGED scenario of someone writing a paper for someone else. There is no proof this is occurring, the OP admitted their reasons for wanting to tell were because it's not "fair" that this person has tons of free time and a husband that does everything for her.
In this particular scenario I personally wouldn't pursue reporting it unless I had more to go off of. If the OP comes off the same way they come off here if they report it than I think it will be clear the "reporting" is coming out of spite and resentment and not because someone is truly concerned. That's how it comes off to me here.
Even if you use your eyes to physically see someone in the act of cheating you still have nothing more than your word to rely on. Unless you video taped an act that was very clearly cheating you still have no evidence.
I was merely suggested that there were several very narrow, literal interpretations of school's honour codes in regard to cheating. My point was simply that if you bear witness to cheating, and this does not have to be using your eyes to see it occurring, then you have a duty to uphold your school's honour code.
Hi, all. I'm an LPN student and I need some advice on a moral/ethical issue about one of my classmates.
A woman in my class recently told me that she hasn't written a single paper - a woman she works with writes the papers for her. This woman asks my classmate to take her shifts and in exchange for working these shifts, the woman writes the papers for my classmate.
I really like my classmate - but this really, really IRRITATES me.
classmate, on the other hand, has several children but they're all grown (the youngest is 17) and her husband is disabled and receives disability - he stays home all day, does ALL the cleaning and cooking, manages the entire household so that his wife can focus on school.
I know it's wrong, but I wouldn't be so irritated if this classmate of mine was a single mom with several kids to raise on her own or something - at least then I could empathize.
What makes me even more irritated is that this woman has all this help from her husband, someone else writes her papers for her, and she supposedly has tons of time to study - and she's barely passing!
I just want to get some of these facts straight..so I have a few questions.
1. You claim that the best LPN students are accepted into the RN program right? But you mention she's barely passing. THEN you say you don't like that she'll be with you in the RN program..contradicting info there unless you're barely passing, in which case you wouldn't make it into the RN program either.
2. How can you play gatekeeper and determine who can or cannot "cheat, slack off, be lazy, etc". You don't live in that other person's house, so you have no clue what responsibility they may or may not have. To CuriousMe who was complaining about picking battles or whatever...is that not picking a battle? This thread wouldn't exist if the other student had the same stress as the OP. I'm not a woman, but that does sound like some envy is brewing.
No one knows all the facts, but there seems to be more to this story
I just want to get some of these facts straight..so I have a few questions.
1. You claim that the best LPN students are accepted into the RN program right? But you mention she's barely passing. THEN you say you don't like that she'll be with you in the RN program..contradicting info there unless you're barely passing, in which case you wouldn't make it into the RN program either.
2. How can you play gatekeeper and determine who can or cannot "cheat, slack off, be lazy, etc". You don't live in that other person's house, so you have no clue what responsibility they may or may not have. To CuriousMe who was complaining about picking battles or whatever...is that not picking a battle? This thread wouldn't exist if the other student had the same stress as the OP. I'm not a woman, but that does sound like some envy is brewing.
No one knows all the facts, but there seems to be more to this story
No, I'm saying I don't "pick my battles" by judging the outcome. If I know about cheating I report it. That is my responsibility (not to prove a student did anything, not to judge and sentence a student, just to report what I know).
This whole idea of "deciding" if they'll report it or not based on whether they think the school will do anything about it, or worse, how it would impact themselves, is deplorable.
Specializes in Professional Development Specialist.
There was cheating in my program too. It was reported but since there was never any proof, it was never followed up on and instead they made the course HARDER in order to deter those who cheated. In the end those of us who didn't ended up killing ourselves and some of us non cheaters didn't pass as a result. No good deed goes unpunished.
:up:
ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN
886 Posts
first of all, you are making all kinds of assumptions. none of us know this person, yet you are willing to judge her character. i am surprised that you believe this person would falsify medication records based on the information that she allegedly had somebody write papers for her. nobody knows if that actually happened or not. i am shocked that everyone is prejudging her without knowing her side of the story. maybe there is an explanation. maybe she lied about somebody writing her papers. who knows?
this is what the op said, “a woman in my class recently told me that she hasn't written a single paper - a woman she works with writes the papers for her. this woman asks my classmate to take her shifts and in exchange for working these shifts, the woman writes the papers for my classmate.” i don’t care what her reasons are for having someone else to write her papers. she is wrong for doing it. and if she lied about it, then she is wrong for doing that. that is how i am judging the person. if you lie or cheat, you have a major deficit in your character period!
and to say that i should "reconsider my career choice" because i "think it's childish to rat somebody out" is only considering your narrow point of view. there is no reason to report a student for allegedly cheating when the only evidence is an unsubstantiated rumor. i also find it strange that you would suggest an in-classroom writing assignment in order to try and catch this student cheating. that is very vindictive.
the original post is about an ethical dilemma. since you are a nurse, i am sure you had to study ethics in nursing, right? it is about doing the right thing. if a student suspects cheating of any kind, it is their duty to report it regardless of “proof”. what the school decides to do is up to them, but the student has fulfilled his/her duty. you are correct. my post is strictly my opinion based upon personal experiences, my ethical opinions, and what i have been taught. my cohort requires a writing sample in the beginning of every class so that the professor can determine our writing style. i don’t think it is vindictive at all.
as far as "my responses shedding light on my character", you must live in an idealistic world. in some places, if you report somebody to an authority figure, there may be serious consequences and retaliation. therefore, one learns that "don't snitch" is the way to go. it is very sad that you judge people. what does that say about your character?
this is nothing more than a cop-out. i don’t know where you work, but there are rules in place for retaliation. if the facility doesn’t adhere to them, it’s a class action suit again them. it surprises me to see that you are 30 years old and trying to argue this weak position. i would have thought you would have experienced more in your life. evidently not. i don’t live in an idealistic world. i chose to do the right things and not conform to what others want me to do. living my life this way has served me well.
i guess i am floored that you tried to discredit what i have said with lame statements and comments. i am always open to other’s viewpoints so as long as they are logical, ethical, and make sense. your comments simply don’t make the cut. sorry.