Moral/Ethical Advice

[chinacatSN]

Hi, all. I'm an LPN student and I need some advice on a moral/ethical issue about one of my classmates.

Some background info: My class is mostly not-your-average students - most of us are in our mid-to-late twenties and early thirties, but quite a few are in their 40's and 50's. We all get a long pretty well - which is a miracle, a whole bunch of women shoved together (there's only one man in our class). Most of us are pretty tight nit and no one goes running to our instructor over little minuscule issues - such as so-and-so's tattoo is showing or so-and-so didn't do that, blah, blah, blah. But I've recently come into some information that is a HUGE issue.

A woman in my class recently told me that she hasn't written a single paper - a woman she works with writes the papers for her. This woman asks my classmate to take her shifts and in exchange for working these shifts, the woman writes the papers for my classmate.

I really like my classmate - but this really, really IRRITATES me. I have been working my butt off - trying to do clinicals, care plans, study for tests, write papers - well, all of you know the workload nursing students deal with. Not only that, but I have a 3 yr old at home and a husband who works sometimes as much as 70 hours a week, give or take. My classmate, on the other hand, has several children but they're all grown (the youngest is 17) and her husband is disabled and receives disability - he stays home all day, does ALL the cleaning and cooking, manages the entire household so that his wife can focus on school. I know it's wrong, but I wouldn't be so irritated if this classmate of mine was a single mom with several kids to raise on her own or something - at least then I could empathize. What makes me even more irritated is that this woman has all this help from her husband, someone else writes her papers for her, and she supposedly has tons of time to study - and she's barely passing!

Anyway, enough of my rambling - what should I do? Should I talk to my instructor face-to-face? Should I leave an anonymous note? Should I send her an email? Should I not tell her at all? Guys, I really don't know what to do. I live in a small town, I have to deal with these women for another 4-5 months and I don't want them to find out and think of me as a snitch - but I really don't think it's fair for someone to be skating by like this when all the rest of us are working our butts off, earning the good grades we receive, and she's having someone else do half the work for her!

Please reply as soon as you can. Thanks for your advice!

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

Not even close to "same as the OP."

Surely you don't think that hearing something second-hand via an anonymous message board is of the same weight as a fellow student in your program confessing to you what they have been doing?

Even if you somehow do....I don't. Unsubstantiated gossip about people I've never seen face-to-face is radically different from someone I know, who knows me...telling me that they did something (no third party involved).

I also didn't sign the Student Code of Conduct/Honor Code at their school....I did at mine. It states that if I know of cheating by a fellow student (as in, in the same program) then if I don't report it I am as guilty of academic dishonesty as they are.

Who cares if it's first or second or third hand, right? It's in the interest of JUSTICE! Justice must be served!!

So what you're saying essentially is that your moral code is also *conditional*.

Give us all a break, please.

[CuriousMe]

Who cares if it's first or second or third hand, right? It's in the interest of JUSTICE! Justice must be served!!

So what you're saying essentially is that your moral code is also *conditional*.

Give us all a break, please.

Huh?!?!

I said my I don't base moral decisions on whether I benefit from the outcome or not. That hasn't changed. I never said anything about justice...that's not my call. Again, that is faculty's decision.

I simply said (well, I thought it was pretty simple till I got here). That I uphold my responsibility. Which is, if I know of academic dishonesty (I witness it, someone tells me they did something, etc) I report what I saw, or what I was told.....that's it, that's the end of my responsibility. If I don't report it...I'm as guilty as they are.

All the talk of evidence, proof, justice, revenge, being angry, yadda, yadda, yadda..... None of that has been my point. My point is just that we should uphold our responsibility (as many of us signed documents saying we would) and let faculty uphold theirs. Even if fulfilling our responsibility may make life uncomfortable for us in the future.

To address DolceVida & ToxicShock's idea of taking her aside and sharing that having other peoples write papers for them, is wrong and could get them kicked out of the program. I think that's a lovely notion.....but why? That method doesn't fulfill any responsibility to the school's honor code and doesn't serve the student or justice. I mean, does anyone REALLY think this student is unaware that having someone else write all their papers is cheating? That this behavior could get them kicked out of the program? This isn't a case of a student citing incorrectly and inadvertently plagiarizing....she's bragging that another person is writing her papers for gosh sakes. All that conversation does is to inform someone who know's they're doing wrong, that they're doing wrong.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

I think this is the best written piece of advice here, along with a later post by rn/writer. Instead of the knee-jerk, playground-mentality of "-gasp- I'm telling!", the so-called cheater should be addressed directly, and not behind her back. Treat her like an adult, despite her arguably childish behavior. Tell her that you are uncomfortable about what she has just told you, and briefly explain why. Let her know that you may have to report her, pursuant to the student code of conduct (or whatever is the governing body here).

OP, this is weighing heavily on your mind. Whether you're jealous or not, accurate or embellishing, it's obviously causing you grief. As adults, I believe that issues and situations that make us uncomfortable need to be addressed in an adult manner. You are upset, and you should tell her. Maybe this girl is doing this as a cry for attention; maybe being told, "hey what you're doing isn't cool - you could get kicked out for that" will help her put things into better perspective.

To me it's like following the chain of command: you deal with what you can directly, and then keep going up until things are resolved. Harsh judgments on her personal and moral character need not apply; no one knows for sure what her reasons are for what she is doing - or if she's even doing it.

THIS is great advice.

[backatit2]

Huh?!?!

I said my I don't base moral decisions on whether I benefit from the outcome or not. That hasn't changed. I never said anything about justice...that's not my call. Again, that is faculty's decision.

I simply said (well, I thought it was pretty simple till I got here). That I uphold my responsibility. Which is, if I know of academic dishonesty (I witness it, someone tells me they did something, etc) I report what I saw, or what I was told.....that's it, that's the end of my responsibility. If I don't report it...I'm as guilty as they are.

All the talk of evidence, proof, justice, revenge, being angry, yadda, yadda, yadda..... None of that has been my point. My point is just that we should uphold our responsibility (as many of us signed documents saying we would) and let faculty uphold theirs. Even if fulfilling our responsibility may make life uncomfortable for us in the future.

To address DolceVida & ToxicShock's idea of taking her aside and sharing that having other peoples write papers for them, is wrong and could get them kicked out of the program. I think that's a lovely notion.....but why? That method doesn't fulfill any responsibility to the school's honor code and doesn't serve the student or justice. I mean, does anyone REALLY think this student is unaware that having someone else write all their papers is cheating? That this behavior could get them kicked out of the program? This isn't a case of a student citing incorrectly and inadvertently plagiarizing....she's bragging that another person is writing her papers for gosh sakes. All that conversation does is to inform someone who know's they're doing wrong, that they're doing wrong.

I find this ironic and contradicting:

"I never said anything about justice...that's not my call." and then:

"That method doesn't fulfill any responsibility to the school's honor code and doesn't serve the student or justice."

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

Huh?!?!

I said my I don't base moral decisions on whether I benefit from the outcome or not. That hasn't changed. I never said anything about justice...that's not my call. Again, that is faculty's decision.

I simply said (well, I thought it was pretty simple till I got here). That I uphold my responsibility. Which is, if I know of academic dishonesty (I witness it, someone tells me they did something, etc) I report what I saw, or what I was told.....that's it, that's the end of my responsibility. If I don't report it...I'm as guilty as they are.

All the talk of evidence, proof, justice, revenge, being angry, yadda, yadda, yadda..... None of that has been my point. My point is just that we should uphold our responsibility (as many of us signed documents saying we would) and let faculty uphold theirs. Even if fulfilling our responsibility may make life uncomfortable for us in the future.

To address DolceVida & ToxicShock's idea of taking her aside and sharing that having other peoples write papers for them, is wrong and could get them kicked out of the program. I think that's a lovely notion.....but why? That method doesn't fulfill any responsibility to the school's honor code and doesn't serve the student or justice. I mean, does anyone REALLY think this student is unaware that having someone else write all their papers is cheating? That this behavior could get them kicked out of the program? This isn't a case of a student citing incorrectly and inadvertently plagiarizing....she's bragging that another person is writing her papers for gosh sakes. All that conversation does is to inform someone who know's they're doing wrong, that they're doing wrong.

The term you used was "moral relativism" and you used more than one example to illustrate it - including considering whether or not the person who cheated would be punished when making the decision whether or not to bring the infraction to light:

So, just to be sure I have this right.....folks are only supposed to do the right thing, if the other person will be punished? If we're not sure they'll be punished, then we can take the easy way out?

Gotta love moral relativism...

I have a different perspective. There is right and there is wrong....what the school does or doesn't do, doesn't impact what is right and what is wrong. I live up to my responsibilities, do what I know is right and let others live up to theirs.

And whether or not someone other than the individual doing the telling would or wouldn't benefit from exposure of the infraction:

So you "pick your battles" based on how it would benefit someone else? What other criteria would you use to "pick your battles?"

If I misunderstood, please enlighten us...

It's pretty clear cut to me....either a decision is made based on what happened (this woman told her someone else wrote all her papers), or it's based on what will happen (lady may or may not get punished, life might be more difficult for the OP).

You also mentioned that:

If I know about cheating I report it. That is my responsibility (not to prove a student did anything, not to judge and sentence a student, just to report what I know).

What I have gathered (I think rightfully so) from your position on the matter is that nothing should preclude a person from fulfilling what they and others believe to be a moral responsibility lest it be considered moral relativity. I made a perfectly good suggestion offering an opportunity for you to fulfill your self proclaimed responsibility and set an example for those whose thoughts on the subject you've described as "deplorable". What precludes your taking said suggestion? That it didn't happen in your back yard? That you weren't the one the guilty party informed first hand? Sounds relative to me.

[CuriousMe]

The term you used was "moral relativism" and you used more than one example to illustrate it - including considering whether or not the person who cheated would be punished when making the decision whether or not to bring the infraction to light:

And whether or not someone other than the individual doing the telling would or wouldn't benefit from exposure of the infraction:

You also mentioned that:

What I have gathered (I think rightfully so) from your position on the matter is that nothing should preclude a person from fulfilling what they and others believe to be a moral responsibility lest it be considered moral relativity. I made a perfectly good suggestion offering an opportunity for you to fulfill your self proclaimed responsibility and set an example for those whose thoughts on the subject you've described as "deplorable". What precludes your taking said suggestion?

I'm trying to decide if you're just trying to be difficult, or if you really don't see a difference between, "I'll only do the right thing --as defined by my school's honor code-- if I'm not going to have any negative consequences," and "I will report any acts of academic dishonesty that I have personal knowledge of because it's both the right thing to do and I signed a document saying I would do so"

Oh, and reporting academic dishonesty isn't a "self proclaimed" responsibility....it's proclaimed in our honor code (which, unsurprisingly, I had no part in creating).

Any example I used of moral relativism dealt with folks who only felt it was important to do the right thing....when it didn't impact them. (So, the right thing to do was relative to any possible consequence to them).

I can not take you up on your dubiously offered "opportunity" as I have no personal knowledge of any academic dishonesty. No student has come up to me and told me that someone was writing their papers....so I have nothing to report.

I assure you though, should a student approach me and tell me that they are turning in papers which someone else wrote....I will be sure to report that to faculty.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

I can not take you up on your dubiously offered "opportunity" as I have no personal knowledge of any academic dishonesty. No student has come up to me and told me that someone was writing their papers....so I have nothing to report.

I have to disagree. You have no less knowledge of the infraction than the OP. The only difference is the source. I'm sure they would understand if you explained to them where you acquired the information, though they might think you a little odd. But who cares so long as justice is served?

Oh, and reporting academic dishonesty isn't a "self proclaimed" responsibility....it's proclaimed in our honor code (which, unsurprisingly, I had no part in creating).

So, if you hadn't signed a document stating you would uphold a code of ethics, would you still blow the whistle? And if so, what makes an act of academic dishonesty that transpires on some other campus any different than one that transpires on yours?

The manner in which you've asserted your convictions here (by "here" I mean throughout the thread) comes off as pretty vitriolic and damning, which in and of itself is not a terrible thing - so long as it is justified. I am not of the opinion that that is justified because your logic is flawed. You are ready to accept shades of gray when you're in the hot seat theoretically but not when it comes to someone else who may be making a very real, very difficult decision. I felt compelled to speak up in the interest of a fair and balanced discussion.

[rn/writer, RN]

Time. once again, to step back from the brink. It isn't beneficial to arm wrestle each other over something the OP ultimately has to decide for herself. We've given her much to think about.

Thread closed for a cooling off period.