Modern Conservatism and Democracy

[toomuchbaloney]

Anti-Democratic Conservatism Isn’t New

“Conservatism” is no Longer Enough

From the first link:

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partisanship has led conservatives to tolerate partisan gerrymandering and legislative obstacles to voting and voter registration that are not present in other advanced democracies and amounts to voter suppression. In a very real sense, the Republican party has in the era of Donald Trump forsaken its commitment to democracy, and there is a conservative intellectual tradition to lend it intellectual legitimacy.

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Here’s the rub: Conservatives may be uneven democrats, but democracy is stronger when it has constructive conservative parties. Harvard political scientist Daniel Ziblatt has shown the importance conservative political parties to developing democracies. Strong, well-organized and fundamentally competitive center-right parties that are confident enough to accept the “‘open-endedness’ or ‘uncertainty’ of inclusive political competition” are a key deciding factor in the success or failure of nascent democracies. Poorly organized right-wing elements that rely on “contracting out” political activism, manipulating the machinery of state, or putting in place countermajoritarian institutional protections to maintain power are prone to radical right-wing takeovers and disruptive to democracy. It doesn’t take much imagination to see this process playing out even in advanced democracies like the United States.

The Bulwark is a right leaning publication that publishes factual and accurate information.  I would encourage you to read the entire article, it covers a good bit of important history. 

From the second link, the Clairmont Institute  (conservative think tank):

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The U.S. Constitution no longer works. But that fact raises more questions than answers. Can some parts of the system—especially at the local and state level—be preserved and strengthened? How would that work? How do we distinguish the parts that are salvageable from the parts that are hopeless? How did all this happen, anyway? The answers to these questions are not obvious. Having a coherent plan—thinking through what American citizenship used to mean, what made it noble and made the country worthy of patriotic love, and how to rebuild its best elements—requires input from people, and institutions, who have given these matters a lot of thought.

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This understanding of fundamental principles is also why Claremont may be the only “conservative think tank” that can continue to carry on its work—essentially unaltered—in the face of the great revolutionary change we are now experiencing. This is another way of making the point I argued earlier: America, as an identity or political movement, might need to carry on without the United States.

As evidenced by Trump's GOP approved, supported and defended assault on American institutions and norms, and the assault on the capitol 010621, the modern republican party is now actively acting against American democracy. 

These are perilous times for our country. 

[toomuchbaloney]

Today's conservative republican party is fully engaged in undermining our democratic processes to seize and maintain power. 

Trump Tried To Use DOJ in Coup Attempt

[toomuchbaloney]

The Biggest Threat to Democracy Is the GOP Stealing the Next Election

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The greatest threat to American democracy today is not a repeat of January 6, but the possibility of a stolen presidential election. Contemporary democracies that die meet their end at the ballot box, through measures that are nominally constitutional. The looming danger is not that the mob will return; it’s that mainstream Republicans will “legally” overturn an election.

There is very real potential that the USA has experienced it's very last free and fair election cycle already.  Republican voters are poised and prepped to believe every stolen election lie told from now on.  

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

12 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

There is very real potential that the USA has experienced it's very last free and fair election cycle already.  Republican voters are poised and prepped to believe every stolen election lie told from now on.  

The Trump effect of people not believing in the truth and believing in conspiracy is alive and well.

I made a comment on a thread on facebook that merely stated that 90% of the patients where I work are unvaccinated.  This is according to data that my hospital puts out daily.  I know the other major healthcare organization in does the same.  Basically, I was told I was BSing them and they know for a fact that it's not true.  Three different people.  One person said "there are two doctors in my family that say your are full of shyte".  I said "oh they work with me and know the data the hospital puts out is false?".  The answer of course "government funded hospitals aren't telling the truth".  Basically since almost every hospital receives government funds this person believes that they all got together and decided to deceive the public so they would get the vaccine.    

Anyway, that's a tangent, but I just turned to my friend "the Trump effect is alive and well" and we went on to discuss how the last four years an element of people just make up things and don't believe what's true.  This was ultimately manifested in people for the first time en mass not believing in Democracy and the results of the election.  

I don't like to fear monger but elections are so close these days and there does seem to be a real possibility that somehow people will try to swing elections their way.  God knows Trump tried but Democracy intervened.  I'd like to think that these institutions and checks and balances will hold up in the future, but I'm not quite hopeful.

We couldn't save ourselves from Covid over politics and conspiracy theories, certainly I don't think are going to save ourselves from Decmoracy's demise, climate change, or anything that requires a United States.

 

[guest1163268]

This country could never be truly Democratic until we begin with the Supreme Court! 

Law is the thread that holds a democracy together! We have Supreme Court Justices on both sides that has religious, political and very likely personal interests influencing their decisions! 

If at the highest court, it's not just about the law without any subjectivity whatsoever, it means right down the line, the other courts are also going to be compromised! From State to Local courts! 

If you have integrity which at the very least a Supreme Court Justice should have, objectivity should be your religion! 

There should be no appointed justices by politicians to avoid bias. If that can be achieved, then every facet of our lives can be successfully legislated. Politicians can no longer believe that they can get away with anything, meaning every single appointment they make will have to survive scrutiny. Every court in the land will also be subject to the same scrutiny! 

Corporations, the police, criminals will know that they cannot buy or weasel their way out! 

[chare]

4 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

[...]

There should be no appointed justices by politicians to avoid bias. If that can be achieved, then every facet of our lives can be successfully legislated. Politicians can no longer believe that they can get away with anything, meaning every single appointment they make will have to survive scrutiny. Every court in the land will also be subject to the same scrutiny! 

[...]

I don't disagree that SCOTUS becoming more and more political, and some of the lower courts seem to have gone off the rails, but how exactly do you see this happening?

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, chare said:

I don't disagree that SCOTUS becoming more and more political, and some of the lower courts seem to have gone off the rails, but how exactly do you see this happening?

In my view, it really doesn't matter unless we do something about the activities and attitudes of the GOP. If they are unchecked we will soon no longer live in a country that enjoys free and fair elections.  

The stage is set...republican losses will be because of fraud and cheating (that will be the claim) and the GOP voters will believe it in the absence of evidence.  That sentiment will then tolerate or even demand remedy that will break the system.  Then all bets are off.  Politicians will begin creating ways for them or their appointees to decide who won or lost.  

[DaveICURN]

I believe that we need to dispense with the Us vs Them approach. 

"Libtards are overthrowing our personal freedoms!"

"Trumpers are destroying democracy!"

 

All the inane name calling the removes the speaker from an obvious truth. That the person you call out as your rival is your own inadequacy inverted. We all could do to be more kind towards the plight of others, and we all could be more stern with those who abuse that kindness. 

We all need a part of the other side to function as a society. But the longer we denigrate and push people to the fringes of their ideology, then we will forever fight for the middle.  

 

Let us then discuss the arguments of the GOP and find that common ground. 

[toomuchbaloney]

5 minutes ago, DaveICURN said:

I believe that we need to dispense with the Us vs Them approach. 

"Libtards are overthrowing our personal freedoms!"

"Trumpers are destroying democracy!"

 

All the inane name calling the removes the speaker from an obvious truth. That the person you call out as your rival is your own inadequacy inverted. We all could do to be more kind towards the plight of others, and we all could be more stern with those who abuse that kindness. 

We all need a part of the other side to function as a society. But the longer we denigrate and push people to the fringes of their ideology, then we will forever fight for the middle.  

 

Let us then discuss the arguments of the GOP and find that common ground. 

There isn't any name calling in this thread. 

Would you like to discuss the articles I've shared and statements I've made about the apparent intentions of republican lawmakers and politicians?

[DaveICURN]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:38 AM, toomuchbaloney said:

The Bulwark is a right leaning publication

Though the article does list some historical people and their writings, it merely paints their ideals as the foundation of todays conservatives. I don't believe that we should be coining William F. Buckley as the "Patron Saint". I think this does a disservice to the more nuanced augments in the attempt to have a incorrect supposition. 

Also I'm not entirely sure that a right leaning website would give credence to VOX media. But I could be wrong. 

 

And I would ask you to elaborate on this point;

"...modern republican party is now actively acting against American democracy" 

[toomuchbaloney]

10 minutes ago, DaveICURN said:

Though the article does list some historical people and their writings, it merely paints their ideals as the foundation of todays conservatives. I don't believe that we should be coining William F. Buckley as the "Patron Saint". I think this does a disservice to the more nuanced augments in the attempt to have a incorrect supposition. 

Also I'm not entirely sure that a right leaning website would give credence to VOX media. But I could be wrong. 

 

And I would ask you to elaborate on this point;

"...modern republican party is now actively acting against American democracy" 

Many are either actively encouraging their constituents to believe lies about elections or they are ignoring the lies while simultaneously legislating to restrict voting based upon the lie that there is some problem that urgently mecca top be fixed top make elections safer. Some states are entertaining ways that elected officials can ignore or change vote totals if they "believe" there has been fraud (in the absence of evidence). 

Let's not forget that republican lawmakers largely want to ignore the threat January 6 and what that represents.  

[DaveICURN]

16 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Many are either actively encouraging their constituents to believe lies about elections or they are ignoring the lies

So that I understand, Is this related to the voter fraud allegations?