Modern Conservatism and Democracy

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Anti-Democratic Conservatism Isn’t New

“Conservatism” is no Longer Enough

From the first link:

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partisanship has led conservatives to tolerate partisan gerrymandering and legislative obstacles to voting and voter registration that are not present in other advanced democracies and amounts to voter suppression. In a very real sense, the Republican party has in the era of Donald Trump forsaken its commitment to democracy, and there is a conservative intellectual tradition to lend it intellectual legitimacy.

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Here’s the rub: Conservatives may be uneven democrats, but democracy is stronger when it has constructive conservative parties. Harvard political scientist Daniel Ziblatt has shown the importance conservative political parties to developing democracies. Strong, well-organized and fundamentally competitive center-right parties that are confident enough to accept the “‘open-endedness’ or ‘uncertainty’ of inclusive political competition” are a key deciding factor in the success or failure of nascent democracies. Poorly organized right-wing elements that rely on “contracting out” political activism, manipulating the machinery of state, or putting in place countermajoritarian institutional protections to maintain power are prone to radical right-wing takeovers and disruptive to democracy. It doesn’t take much imagination to see this process playing out even in advanced democracies like the United States.

The Bulwark is a right leaning publication that publishes factual and accurate information.  I would encourage you to read the entire article, it covers a good bit of important history. 

From the second link, the Clairmont Institute  (conservative think tank):

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The U.S. Constitution no longer works. But that fact raises more questions than answers. Can some parts of the system—especially at the local and state level—be preserved and strengthened? How would that work? How do we distinguish the parts that are salvageable from the parts that are hopeless? How did all this happen, anyway? The answers to these questions are not obvious. Having a coherent plan—thinking through what American citizenship used to mean, what made it noble and made the country worthy of patriotic love, and how to rebuild its best elements—requires input from people, and institutions, who have given these matters a lot of thought.

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This understanding of fundamental principles is also why Claremont may be the only “conservative think tank” that can continue to carry on its work—essentially unaltered—in the face of the great revolutionary change we are now experiencing. This is another way of making the point I argued earlier: America, as an identity or political movement, might need to carry on without the United States.

As evidenced by Trump's GOP approved, supported and defended assault on American institutions and norms, and the assault on the capitol 010621, the modern republican party is now actively acting against American democracy. 

These are perilous times for our country. 

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2 minutes ago, DaveICURN said:

So that I understand, Is this related to the voter fraud allegations?

 

It's related to overall conduct, rhetoric and national attitudes of modern republicans.  The citations I provided described something a bit more general than the current election lies that are bubbling in social conservative media. 

Just now, toomuchbaloney said:

It's related to overall conduct, rhetoric and national attitudes of modern republicans.

But I worry that your throwing away the baby, bathwater, and tub all in one go. Does the current republican establishment have flaws? Of course, no individual of group is perfect. This is why I am trying to hone in on specific grievances to try and establish a point of reference for a conversation. 

 

Also I would like to know your take on those citation. I would hate to try and distill your opinion from your references. 

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2 hours ago, DaveICURN said:

But I worry that your throwing away the baby, bathwater, and tub all in one go. Does the current republican establishment have flaws? Of course, no individual of group is perfect. This is why I am trying to hone in on specific grievances to try and establish a point of reference for a conversation. 

 

Also I would like to know your take on those citation. I would hate to try and distill your opinion from your references. 

The current GOP establishment didn't even develop a political platform for the 2020 presidential election cycle. They relied exclusively on the whims and musings of the only president to blatantly engage repeatedly in abuse of power resulting in impeachment twice. That's the same fellow who tried to contrive a reason to ignore the vote and simply appoint him as president.  The GOP ignored that, tried to assist him, spread his election fraud lies, encouraged outrage among the followers and now want to obscure what really was going on January 6. 

On the state level republicans are pushing against public health, pushing to undo voter rights advances, and are looking to give legislative bodies the right to ignore vote results if they don't like the election outcome. They are using lies to further their agenda.  

The GOP agenda is unamerican and dangerous, in my view.  

Anyone who subscribes to hypocrisy and outright lies ends up being like trump, Ted Cruz, Gaetz, Hawley, bobbert, Graham,, Nunes, Abbott, Desilsva,Greene etc etc who are the pillars of that party. And what are they seriously known for, if you are being honest! Misinformation, lies, subterfuge, tyrannical voter suppression! 

Old style republicans were somewhat serious people who did seem patriotic with good values etc, BUT THEY always were very judgemental in a puritanical sense! They felt like they knew what was best for everyone! 

That in a nutshell is the flaw in their character! There isn't a single culinary or scientific recipe that cannot be improved upon or changed to suit specific tastes. Fusion! 

There isn't a single system or lifestyle that doesn't obey the same rules! Yet these old, insipid, feeble minded, white men, felt, ignoring their own insecurities and oh so many obvious flaws, that they should dictate without any research or other studies, that their ways are best! 

People like that in evolutionary mechanics, should be eliminated! Phased out! Eradicated! I am not being harsh or cruel here! 

Anyone who doesn't recognize that there is always more to learn is on an evolutionary dead end! Evidenced.... Mrna! New technology built from old research, adapted to current needs! Republicans downplay science. Antivaxxers and anti masking, no social distancing! 

Republicans need to be phased out because they don't contribute anything to society! The days of dictating have ended! These are the days of cooperation and alliances, education and technology, acceptance and support and republicans want the exact opposite! Evidenced... Texas Abortion laws! 

We don't subscribe to intolerance any more! 

19 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

Republicans need to be phased out because they don't contribute anything to society!

We don't subscribe to intolerance any more!

Yes, you do. You stand so high above everyone else that all you can do is gaze at everyone else and their inequity. 

If you are without flaw, then you have nothing to learn. You speed toward your own evolutionary end. 

21 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The GOP agenda is unamerican and dangerous, in my view. 

So if I understand you, the GOP is an outmoded group whose own self interests are dooming it to failure? They proport lies to strengthen their own support?

 

You have clearly outlined the stop point for the GOP. Then I feel inclined to wonder. What is the stopping point when the Democratic party has gone too far?

3 minutes ago, DaveICURN said:

Yes, you do. You stand so high above everyone else that all you can do is gaze at everyone else and their inequity. 

If you are without flaw, then you have nothing to learn. You speed toward your own evolutionary end. 

So if I understand you, the GOP is an outmoded group whose own self interests are dooming it to failure? They proport lies to strengthen their own support?

 

You have clearly outlined the stop point for the GOP. Then I feel inclined to wonder. What is the stopping point when the Democratic party has gone too far?

Hence the point of Democracy! It's actually in the description of the Democratic party! 

Autocracy and Monarchy are failed forms of govt. Rejected by the people and America is for the people! 

Look it up! 

5 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

Hence the point of Democracy!

Forgive my need for clarification. What, in your estimation, is the point of democracy as implied by my reply?

1 minute ago, DaveICURN said:

Forgive my need for clarification. What, in your estimation, is the point of democracy as implied by my reply?

Did you not ask about the stopping point of Democratic party? 

Democracy is a system of govt that provides a controlling feature to autocratic types. 

Republicans currently have evaluated that due to better education and population variety, that their needs for control are quickly diminishing as evidenced by, anytime there's a big voter turnout, they lose or they have lost the popular vote in the last several elections, I think. 

Therefore, the only way they can win, is by voter suppression, gerrymandering and stooping to illegal methods and suppressing Democracy! Or, also lying their asses off! 

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, DaveICURN said:

Yes, you do. You stand so high above everyone else that all you can do is gaze at everyone else and their inequity. 

If you are without flaw, then you have nothing to learn. You speed toward your own evolutionary end. 

So if I understand you, the GOP is an outmoded group whose own self interests are dooming it to failure? They proport lies to strengthen their own support?

 

You have clearly outlined the stop point for the GOP. Then I feel inclined to wonder. What is the stopping point when the Democratic party has gone too far?

We are far from the democratic party "going too far" when their current agenda is to defeat a pandemic, end a long term military conflict, investigate a violent insurrection against our Constitution and republic and protect voting rights and the rights of women to make their own health choices.  

Maybe you could share what portion of the current democratic agenda seems to be threatening to our society or standard of living?

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1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Maybe you could share what portion of the current democratic agenda seems to be threatening to our society or standard of living?

https://thecitizen.com/2020/05/16/democrats-damaging-people-economy-out-of-trump-hatred/

Not to mention murdering unborn children, and expensive spending packages we can't sustain, open border, harming small businesses and "job creators" (I.e. the rich)....the list goes on and on.

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23 minutes ago, Tweety said:

https://thecitizen.com/2020/05/16/democrats-damaging-people-economy-out-of-trump-hatred/

Not to mention murdering unborn children, and expensive spending packages we can't sustain, open border, harming small businesses and "job creators" (I.e. the rich)....the list goes on and on.

Yeah.  That's the rhetoric.  

We've solved the "expensive spending packages" complaint.  Withdrawing from Afghanistan is saving us $300 million/day. 

On 9/3/2021 at 6:44 PM, toomuchbaloney said:

Yeah.  That's the rhetoric.  

We've solved the "expensive spending packages" complaint.  Withdrawing from Afghanistan is saving us $300 million/day. 

It might possibly go even further than that. 

I think it has to send a very direct message to the military, that a new man is in charge. I think lots of 'corrupt' contracts and emboldened 'idiots' during the trump years knows that they are going to be investigated by this administration and hundreds of millions of dollars will also be curbed. 

If anyone hasn't fathomed that all the criminals came out of the woodwork with trump's election evidenced by, his hotel in the city, Dejoy, his pitch for the G7, and I absolutely know that Saudi Arabia, Israel and Russia among others, has made deals with trump in some capacity that will not stand up to scrutiny! 

I follow politics and I don't think in the history of America or any industrialized country that so much corruption occurred as in his four years! I think for decades, we will be seeing and unearthing evidence of the corruption from so many different people. His entire administration was for sale! 

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