I'm sharing this for all those prospective student to get a barometer of NS
Another student (I will call Barb) in my Nursing school missed her clinical orientation and then the first 2 hrs of her 1st clinical day...Barb was set to show up at 3. I happened to be at the hospital and saw a clinical group and called Barb, she promptly showed up...as the story goes her clinical instructor who was the last to confirm clinical times and orientation day (with about a week to go)...that part I know is true. Supposedly, she never sent out a confirmation email telling her students when the orientation was. Another student posted the clinical start date on the school website. Barb showed up late and was dismissed for the day and now risks expulsion? Barb claims she talked to her instructor and confirmed a 3:00 PM orient. on Sat...Is it really this easy to get kicked out of nursing school when you have not even made a medical error? Has anybody else experienced this? Whew! I'm on my toes now!
I however think that every opportunity to assert yourself is a lesson in assertiveness...autonomy...and critical thinking!!!! Rules 1,2 & 3 of nursing.
My gut tells me this is a bit harsh. Yet I do understand the importance of clinical orientation and being on time etc. Surely there could have been some middle ground like probation or something?
I wonder what they would have done if she had fallen on her sword and said she was terribly sorry and she learned from her mistake...blah blah blah.
I think you'll find you can get kicked out of a nursing program for just about anything. With everyone and their brother signing up for nursing school these days it seems to me that there are some schools and staff that really don't care much about their students and are quick to dismiss them for any number of minor infractions without even listening to any explanation even if it is a plausable one. Who cares if there are 322465425 more students on the wait list to take their place and fork over their money, right?
Last weekend we had our first clinical and one of our students comes in and is told that he has to go home because he doesn't have a copy of his CPR card on file w/ the school. Two days earlier the professor put up a list on the overhead projector w/ the names of everyone that still needed to turn in their CPR cards. Now a good 80% of those people had already turned in their cards to the correct person (which I know because I was standing there when a lot of them did it) but she apparently lost them. One of the students complained that he had called this person about this issue but she never returns his calls. The professor noted that this woman never returns her calls either and you have to go up and see her during her work hours (which end at 4p btw, when a lot of our nights & weekends students can't make it to campus).
This guy's name was NOT on that list so he didn't think there was an issue. He shows up to clinicals and is told that the person in charge of the cards e-mailed the prof that Friday (our clinicals start at 6:45am on Saturday) and said that he didn't have his in. Never once e-mailed or called this student. When he explained that he was never made aware that he needed to do this she got testy w/ him but did end up letting him stay because I think she realized that he had the proof to back up the fact that he never got a notice. I am sure a few other of the professors would have sent him home anyways.
So anyways, just an example (and I have many more already just in the first semester) that you really have to be on top of everything and extremely proactive in order to not let things like this happen to you.
I can't say that I blame the girl about filing the grievance. Who wants to come back to a school when they've treated you like that (assuming the girl's story is true obviously)?
I think that's one of the hardest things for me to deal w/ in NS so far. The prof can say and do whatever the heck they like to you, rules are only applied to part of the class, favorites are played, and you'd better not even THINK about standing up for yourself or even offering up an explanation because then you're labled and your life isn't going to be much fun for the next 2+ years.
My school isn't even as bad as others i've heard about either. I'm just working on doing exactly what you said, keep my head down, smile & nod (even if i'm grinding my teeth) and try to stay off of the radar as much as possible.
I think you'll find you can get kicked out of a nursing program for just about anything. With everyone and their brother signing up for nursing school these days it seems to me that there are some schools and staff that really don't care much about their students and are quick to dismiss them for any number of minor infractions without even listening to any explanation even if it is a plausable one. Who cares if there are 322465425 more students on the wait list to take their place and fork over their money, right?
Last weekend we had our first clinical and one of our students comes in and is told that he has to go home because he doesn't have a copy of his CPR card on file w/ the school. Two days earlier the professor put up a list on the overhead projector w/ the names of everyone that still needed to turn in their CPR cards. Now a good 80% of those people had already turned in their cards to the correct person (which I know because I was standing there when a lot of them did it) but she apparently lost them. One of the students complained that he had called this person about this issue but she never returns his calls. The professor noted that this woman never returns her calls either and you have to go up and see her during her work hours (which end at 4p btw, when a lot of our nights & weekends students can't make it to campus).
This guy's name was NOT on that list so he didn't think there was an issue. He shows up to clinicals and is told that the person in charge of the cards e-mailed the prof that Friday (our clinicals start at 6:45am on Saturday) and said that he didn't have his in. Never once e-mailed or called this student. When he explained that he was never made aware that he needed to do this she got testy w/ him but did end up letting him stay because I think she realized that he had the proof to back up the fact that he never got a notice. I am sure a few other of the professors would have sent him home anyways.
So anyways, just an example (and I have many more already just in the first semester) that you really have to be on top of everything and extremely proactive in order to not let things like this happen to you.
I can't say that I blame the girl about filing the grievance. Who wants to come back to a school when they've treated you like that (assuming the girl's story is true obviously)?
I think that's one of the hardest things for me to deal w/ in NS so far. The prof can say and do whatever the heck they like to you, rules are only applied to part of the class, favorites are played, and you'd better not even THINK about standing up for yourself or even offering up an explanation because then you're labled and your life isn't going to be much fun for the next 2+ years.
My school isn't even as bad as others i've heard about either. I'm just working on doing exactly what you said, keep my head down, smile & nod (even if i'm grinding my teeth) and try to stay off of the radar as much as possible.
Very well said. No truer words were ever spoken when it comes to this subject.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
It is quite possible to be the odd man out when it comes to getting notices. I found myself in a pinch regarding clinical one time because for some reason I was the only person in the group who did not get the correct info. I got a royal chewing out by the instructor over something that was not my fault. I always found myself on the outside looking in because I commuted from the opposite direction as everyone else. Even when I made the effort to look out for getting the scoop on my own, it seems that every once in awhile I would be provided the wrong info. Of course, I was always made to feel that it was supposed to be my fault, even when it clearly was not.
I guess I am glad for the way ours is set up, we get the whole semester schedule ahead of time and if their are any changes they are listed on blackboard for everyone.
after reading the last few posts I guess I am even more glad about my school. I could never go through 2 years walking on egg shells and scared to speak up and so on. It's just not who I am.
If it was the instructors fault good luck getting them to admit the error. She is going to have to prove it on her own and provide the evidence that she was not informed of the time. If it is true and she was not informed, I dont blame her for not wanting to go back to that school for the willingness of the instructor to throw her under the bus like that.
I tried to put myself in the clinical instructors shoes... If I were leading the group I would tell them there is absolutely no excuses for being late! That means you should plan as if you were in an car accident on the way to clinicals to either get their with time to spare or adequate time before to call me with an appropriate excuse. I know this seems a bit tyranical but I have spent the last 19 years being early or on time (that's since I started driving). I just can't stand all the pityful excuses that I've heard, including the student who I have been paired with this semester whom also comes unprepared clueless...she's been late for everyday so far. Once again I take this opportunity to shine being autonomous without help and overly prepared. I guess it's good for my education since I can't count on her.
I"m all for making sure you give yourself extra time, but it is just not feasible for most of us to leave an hour early for our classes. We had a guy that lives an hour away from the school get caught in road construction that detoured him so far away from the college that it took him just about forever to even figure out where he was. He did leave the house in plenty of time for normal circumstance, but not for a drive around the back 40 in hicktown. He called the instructor to tell her the situation and he still ended up in hot water over being late.
Not saying that this was the issue with the person in the OP, but stating that there are indeed schools out there that are just have unrealistic expectations. I have indeed been late to an interview because I got lost in construction in an unfamilar town and when I called to let them know the issue they not only understood and gave me directions, but I got the job.
There is a line between expecting someone to be prepared and punctual and just being a total jerk because you can and unfortunately I see a lot of NS instructors crossing that line.
I could never go through 2 years walking on egg shells and scared to speak up and so on. It's just not who I am.
This is what i'm struggling with so badly right now. My tounge is bleeding from biting on it to keep my mouth shut. My lecture class was a total disaster tonight and I swear I almost had to tape my mouth shut to keep from commenting. It's def not in my make up either to have to take a load of bull from someone and not even be able to stand up for yourself, but if I want to be a nurse I have no other choice because this is litterally the only nationally accredited ADN program within an hour and a half of my house.
I don't know if that student should be kicked out in that situation. Where the polices regarding absences given to her in writing? Can she show the nursing dept a record of calls to demonstrate she tried to call instructor and classmates to find out the right times? Does this school have the ability to allow for make-up days?
Should it be this easy... that's a tough question. I'd argue that there needs to be some slack cut. This is nursing SCHOOL, not a job. If it was a job interview and 1st day of work, usually the employer tells you exactly when to come. If the employer isn't communicating that well with you, in the real world, this isn't the right job for you anyway... and in the real world you just go work somewhere else. Nursing schools forget that failing a student in a single class could result in delaying the graduation for an entire year. An employer can't force you to be unemployed an entire year, but in a way that's what the nursing school is doing.
Not to say students should be lazy or shouldn't have to meet the required # of hours of clinical. But realistically alot of us are also balancing school AND a job or other responsibilities. There needs to be a balance between giving students rules and understanding we're human.
Obviously I'm not referring to this specific student and her situation, because we don't know the whole story, but keep in mind that we often hear sad tales on this board of "I got kicked out of school" or "I got fired" for "just this one little mistake" -- but it eventually turns out that there were other issues/problems already, and the "one little mistake" was just the final straw, rather than an isolated incident. Even classmates often don't know everything that's going on with a student, because we tend not to confide damaging information about ourselves to others. (I'm not criticizing anyone for that, it's just human nature.) But, usually, when something like this happens, the onlookers don't know the whole story.
I'm sure there are some schools of nursing where instructors and administrators are cruel and capricious, and some people do get kicked out of school for "nothing," but, in the schools I've attended and in which I've taught, the faculty and administrators bent over backwards to be fair, to help students succeed, and to avoid kicking students out (often well beyond the point that I, personally, considered a good idea ...)
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DolceVita, ADN, BSN, RN
1,565 Posts
My gut tells me this is a bit harsh. Yet I do understand the importance of clinical orientation and being on time etc. Surely there could have been some middle ground like probation or something?
I wonder what they would have done if she had fallen on her sword and said she was terribly sorry and she learned from her mistake...blah blah blah.