Misogyny in Nursing

midlifemom · Jul 21, 2012

From the same article:

Gilligan’s (1982) argument that women speak in a different moral “voice” than men is a well-known example of the differences model. Women, according to Gilligan, speak in a moral voice of caring, whereas men speak in a voice of justice. Despite the fact that meta-analyses discon- firm her arguments for large gender differences (Jaffee & Hyde, 2000; Thoma, 1986; Walker, 1984), Gilligan’s ideas have permeated American culture. One consequence of this overinflated claim of gender differences is that it reifies the stereotype of women as caring and nurturant and men as lacking in nurturance. One cost to men is that they may believe that they cannot be nurturant, even in their role as father. For women, the cost in the workplace can be enormous. Women who violate the stereotype of being nurturant and nice can be penalized in hiring and evaluations. Rudman and Glick (1999), for example, found that female job applicants who displayed agentic qualities received considerably lower hireability ratings than agentic male applicants for a managerial job that had been “feminized” to require not only technical skills and the ability to work under pressure but also the ability to be helpful and sensitive to the needs of others. The researchers concluded that women must present themselves as competent and agentic to be hired, but they may then be viewed as interpersonally deficient and uncaring and receive biased work evaluations because of their violation of the female nurturance stereotype.

A second example of the costs of unwarranted validation of the stereotype of women as caring nurturers comes from Eagly, Makhijani, and Klonsky’s (1992) meta- analysis of studies of gender and the evaluation of leaders. Overall, women leaders were evaluated as positively as men leaders. However, women leaders portrayed as uncaring autocrats were at a more substantial disadvantage than were men leaders portrayed similarly. Women who violated the caring stereotype paid for it in their evaluations. The persistence of the stereotype of women as nurturers leads to serious costs for women who violate this stereotype in the workplace.

SwansonRN · Jul 21, 2012

What I wish some would realize is that your experiences do not give you the credibility to make huge sweeping statements about female behavior as a whole. I, as a female, find that offensive. "I've noticed in my past few jobs that the women I worked with behaved this way, I wonder why that is..." and then examine the issue from different perspectives instead of throwing up the it's because they're women excuse and using "sociology" as your defense shield. Sorry, I'm going to have to call internalized misogyny on that one and if you're cool with that then YIKES.

I know there are fundamental differences between the sexes; post a credible article on the sociological differences, I think that's interesting and we can use that to our advantage. But otherwise you just seem ignorant, don't use sociology as an excuse to say hateful things. When has that ever been okay?

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jul 21, 2012

I believe that there are bullies in all walks of life. I believe that different people may demonstrate their socially unacceptable behavior in different ways. There are mean girls and there are mean boys, some of them never change their ways and grow up to be mean adults.
I don't hate women. I don't want to generalize women or men. I do want to call a spade a spade when it comes to inappropriate behavior.

This is it!!

WHEN a woman is a mean girl, her behavior is predictable. WHEN a man is a mean boy, his behavior is predictable.

All mean girls act the same way. All mean boys act the same way.

This does not mean that all women are mean girls and all men are mean boys. However, with the human tendency to organize information and put it into nice little packaged groups, stereotypes are created.

I don't believe that all people that make the statements in the OP are misogynists, but they very well might work in environments overpopulated with mean girls, and those stereotypes are perpetuated.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jul 21, 2012

Aggression shows a gender difference that is moderate in magnitude.

I really appreciate your posts using psychological and sociological studies. I want to comment on this phrase.

This whole thread is indeed about aggressive behavior, and I'm not sure if the phrase I quoted above supports the gender similarities theory as it pertains to what is currently under discussion. It might definitely negate claims that women are not as effective in the workforce when it comes to decision-making and professional conflict resolution. Aggression is not professional, but it does occur in professional environments, unfortunately, and that's what we are talking about. The phrase I quoted would support the gender differences claims being made in this thread.

OKNurse2be · Jul 21, 2012

In your first paragraph you say "If there is misogyny among women, then don't you think there might be a reason for it?" I understand you are saying that if women hate, dislike or mistrust other women (generally), that there may be a justification for it. But in your second paragraph you differentiate between women as a group (first paragraph) and certain behaviors that you dislike, and generalize those behaviors to all women "I think women are hard pressed not to be misogynists. It's everywhere! I think for misogyny among women to stop, women need to stop the behaviors that give cause for it in the first place." Your generalization makes me uncomfortable. Do you really see these negative behaviors in all women? I don't. And I haven't experienced negative behavior from all women in social situations. Is it possible you are projecting negativity of your own onto all women? Perhaps you did not intend to generalize to all women, but that is how I read your post. Surely you have been in social situations with women where you didn't experience these negative behaviors. I have learned that our own attitude towards other people has a lot to do with how they treat us. It is not always the other person. I am responding negatively towards your post because I am feeling that you have a negative attitude to women IN GENERAL; you expect the worst and are prepared for the worst : "I don't hate women just because I know and can predict how women act in social situations." It is hard to form relationships based on trust with people who start out fearing and expecting the worst from us.

I don't see it in all women. Of course I don't. Maybe it's just a hard topic for me to really get across how I really feel. I wasn't born and raised in the USA. I come from Norway, and I was bullied all through school, and mostly by girls, so maybe I am a bit colored by personal experience for lack of a better way to say it. In my college classes I have a great group of friends, who are all women.

I can't deny that past experiences, especially ones that were very painful leads me to being careful at first until I get to know people. I am sorry if my post offended you in any way. Certainly not my intention. I think that we all have different experiences that lead us to behave in certain ways, and maybe my past experiences have lead me to be too careful.

This is a topic that people obviously will have strong feelings about as well, and I do feel like I am treading murky waters, since people will have strong opinions on the matter. I am not above examining myself and my own behavior for ways that I may or may not have contributed to this phenomenon. I feel like we can all learn from each other, even if it means we are learning things about ourselves that we don't like.

Wild Irish LPN, LPN · Jul 21, 2012

seriously ladies....put it to bed already....:icon_roll

Susie2310 · Jul 21, 2012

I don't see it in all women. Of course I don't. Maybe it's just a hard topic for me to really get across how I really feel. I wasn't born and raised in the USA. I come from Norway, and I was bullied all through school, and mostly by girls, so maybe I am a bit colored by personal experience for lack of a better way to say it. In my college classes I have a great group of friends, who are all women.
I can't deny that past experiences, especially ones that were very painful leads me to being careful at first until I get to know people. I am sorry if my post offended you in any way. Certainly not my intention. I think that we all have different experiences that lead us to behave in certain ways, and maybe my past experiences have lead me to be too careful.
This is a topic that people obviously will have strong feelings about as well, and I do feel like I am treading murky waters, since people will have strong opinions on the matter. I am not above examining myself and my own behavior for ways that I may or may not have contributed to this phenomenon. I feel like we can all learn from each other, even if it means we are learning things about ourselves that we don't like.

Please don't apologize - your real meaning just wasn't clear to me from your words. I really appreciate your clarification. Thank you for taking the trouble to explain about your background. I can imagine coming from a country such as Norway to the US must have been a big change with a lot of challenges. I come from the UK originally.

I wish you the very best with your schooling, and hope that you will be very happy as a nurse. Thank you again for your reply.

OKNurse2be · Jul 21, 2012

Please don't apologize - your real meaning just wasn't clear to me from your words. I really appreciate your clarification. Thank you for taking the trouble to explain about your background. I can imagine coming from a country such as Norway to the US must have been a big change with a lot of challenges. I come from the UK originally.
I wish you the very best with your schooling, and hope that you will be very happy as a nurse. Thank you again for your reply.

Thank you!

I came over as an Au Pair, and even though that didn't work out, I managed and took a lot of odd jobs and made my own way. Gave my Grandma a hard time, and my Mom some more gray hairs, but here I am almost 10 years later married with 3 kids. :)

Nursing has been a dream for me for as long as I can remember and I am very excited to finally be able to pursue that dream. Thanks again for your kind words and encouragement.

Susie2310 · Jul 21, 2012

Thank you!
I came over as an Au Pair, and even though that didn't work out, I managed and took a lot of odd jobs and made my own way. Gave my Grandma a hard time, and my Mom some more gray hairs, but here I am almost 10 years later married with 3 kids. :)
Nursing has been a dream for me for as long as I can remember and I am very excited to finally be able to pursue that dream. Thanks again for your kind words and encouragement.

You are very welcome. I think it takes a lot of courage to start again from the beginning in another country. I am glad to know that things are working out well for you.

Best wishes to you,

Susie2310

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2012

My take on this discussion...Calling out cattiness is not misogyny. Cattiness is. Cattiness and back-stabbing stem from womens' hatred, mistrust and dislike of other women.When so many women jumped in to agree, it's probably because they can relate - they've experienced cattiness and backstabbing first hand - either as the aggressor or the aggressee - and probably not because there is some conspiracy of character that evades only you and those who share your views to the letter. Also, the only thing that using a racial pejorative like "the 'n' word" and calling women catty share is that they are both blanket statements. The difference between them is that "the 'n' word" is a word that doesn't really describe any specific behavior. In colloquial use, it is mostly akin to calling all women ["female dogs"] in that it is a derogatory term that is affixed to something that cannot be controlled by any individual or group of individuals (like race or gender). Catty on the other hand, very specifically describes an observed behavior. Behavior CAN indeed be controlled by individuals and groups of individuals. I'm sorry, but the comparison doesn't stand up. Talking about women calling other women back-stabbers is a very different conversation from one that discusses women calling other women ["female dogs"] and that distinction should have been made hereThough, I'm fairly certain the intent behind drawing such a comparison was not to encourage a reasonable discussion, but to bait responders into emotionally charged and possibly irrational responses. This, for me, drains the original post of all integrity.I do understand that pointing the finger around to those who call you out is a very natural defense mechanism. I'm just not falling for it.

Nail on the head x 1,000,000.

DisneyNurseGal, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2012

another misogynistic statement.

oh contraire - i neither hate, mistrust or dislike women, i am just stating a fact. anyone who has worked with women, knows this to be 100% true. not saying that it is right or wrong, it just brings out the worst in us.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2012

The two nurses in my career that has caused me the most grief.....were male. I believe it is a basic flaw in their character or any nurses character that decides to bully anyone. It screams insecurity and inferiority complex

It's a personality issue not a gender issue. Misogynist is a word that describe a behavior and doesn't define a profession.