Might be a violation, maybe.

emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Aug 28, 2015

We don't know the actual distance or the volume of conversation. Again, this is one side of a story.

klone, MSN, RN · Aug 28, 2015

We don't know the actual distance or the volume of conversation. Again, this is one side of a story.

I took the story at face value, and didn't assume "public hallway 20 feet apart" actually meant "in a semi-private room, standing next to each other." Why would you?

iluvivt, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2015

Who heard it.....I still cannot determine that?

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Sep 22, 2015

2 MD's, about 20 feet apart, having a quick consultation with each other in the patient care hallway. 1 doc says to the other, "We coded ms (REAL NAME) and got her back, but I don't think we did her any favors"

That depends, who was around?

If it was only you, and you are an employee, no violation occurred.

They can scream it across the parking lot if they want to, but if no one else heard it, no violation occurred.

Farawyn · Sep 28, 2015

That depends, who was around?
If it was only you, and you are an employee, no violation occurred.
They can scream it across the parking lot if they want to, but if no one else heard it, no violation occurred.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Jensmom7, BSN, RN · Sep 28, 2015

They were in the hospital hallway and not in the cafeteria or a more public location. You do not mention if hospital staff were the only ones that could overhear this banter....if so I see nothing wrong with it.Incidental disclosure is going to happen and is allowed and the information must be protected. If that was Mrs Smith they coded..that could be one of many.

One thing you have to remember-when it comes to confidentiality, not every staff member has the right to know about an individual patient. Not even a nurse, if they are not directly involved in the patient's care.

So yes, that's a violation. Will anything happen? Probably not. Unless Acute is a plant for CMS and rats them out for it (just kidding, Acute ðŸ˜‡).

AcuteHD · Sep 28, 2015

...Will anything happen? Probably not. Unless Acute is a plant for CMS and rats them out for it (just kidding, Acute í ½í¸‡).

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Dang, I didn't think about being a paid informant! Now it's too late since I work mostly by myself.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Sep 28, 2015

One thing you have to remember-when it comes to confidentiality, not every staff member has the right to know about an individual patient. Not even a nurse, if they are not directly involved in the patient's care.
So yes, that's a violation. Will anything happen? Probably not. Unless Acute is a plant for CMS and rats them out for it (just kidding, Acute ðŸ˜‡).

No, it's not a violation. Incidental discussions overheard by other STAFF members is an exception to HIPAA.

AcuteHD · Sep 28, 2015

No, it's not a violation. Incidental discussions overheard by other STAFF members is an exception to HIPAA.

20 feet apart in a patient care hallway means that 4 rooms, 2 on the left and 2 on the right, are within that span plus the 2 room behind each doc are easily within hearing distance. Unless the hallway was empty of patients or visitors and those 8 rooms were known to be empty, I don't see how this could be incidental.

xoemmylouox, ASN, RN · Oct 1, 2015

This happens all of the time. I don't think about it twice. Shoot, I'm sure even I have spoken too loudly to someone who was too far away. I SERIOUSLY doubt anything would come of it even if it was reported.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Oct 2, 2015

20 feet apart in a patient care hallway means that 4 rooms, 2 on the left and 2 on the right, are within that span plus the 2 room behind each doc are easily within hearing distance. Unless the hallway was empty of patients or visitors and those 8 rooms were known to be empty, I don't see how this could be incidental.

It is incidental because you can't protect patients from hearing everything. If this was the case, 100% of the doors would be shut in hospitals at all times and all conversations cut down to mere whispers because it is taking place in a patient care area. There would be studies in professional journals of the maximum distance you can be from each other to where nobody else will hear the conversation.

The elevator and cafeteria is another matter. Those are not patient care areas.

Are you a newer nurse? The reason I am asking is those of us that have worked in hospitals for a long time know this goes on all day, every day, and nobody ever says anything about it, nor are there mass complaints about it.

klone, MSN, RN · Oct 2, 2015

Are you a newer nurse? The reason I am asking is those of us that have worked in hospitals for a long time know this goes on all day, every day, and nobody ever says anything about it, nor are there mass complaints about it.

Not in any hospital I've worked at. Maybe I've just been fortunate enough to always work at facilities that take patient privacy very seriously.

And again, talking loudly to each other from 20 feet away in a patient hallway about a patient, using her full name is NOT incidental disclosure. I'm not sure why people keep insisting that it is.