Have you ever done/wanted to do this?

Specialties Med-Surg

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Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.

You know how it is when you have these patients who are A&Ox4, laughing, talking on the phone, going out to smoke but when it's time for their IV pain medication all of a sudden "oh I'm hurting so bad, I need my pain medicine" as soon as you give it they get up and go out to smoke. The ones I love are the ones who hold up the closest port when you come in, "here you can give it here" or "you can push it fast, the burn doesn't bother me". Well anyway, I have been so tempted to push NS instead of pain medicine I'm sure this would be illegal if not immoral since we are not supposed to judge a patients level of pain. More than 20 years ago when I worked in a Doctor's office he would occasionally have us give an injection of NS in place of pain medication and the patient was happy and pain was relieved. Any opinions?

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Use of a placebo without the client's consent is now considered highly unethical (and, yes, probably illegal). You would be putting your license (and job, I'm sure) at risk.

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Specializes in Everything but psych!.

The power of the brain, "the placebo effect," is a known phenomenon. I hear what you are saying though. It is very difficult to stay nonjudgemental in some situations. When things got to me too much in a situation like that, and they happened over and over, I got to the point of figuring out where in nursing I wanted to explore more than where I currently was.

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Specializes in Telemetry & Obs.

Pain is what the patient says it is. Some people can "deal" with it better than others, and I say "good for them".

I'd rather give them their meds and have them walk out to smoke than see them writhe in their bed.

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Specializes in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN.
Use of a placebo without the client's consent is now considered highly unethical (and, yes, probably illegal). You would be putting your license (and job, I'm sure) at risk.

I personally would never give a placebo unless ordered by a doctor, I was just wondering if anyone ever feels like giving one? Or would fess up to having done it? Don't shoot the messenger.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.

Years ago, we were allowed to give placebos.

It made me very anxious as a patient to wonder if I was getting a pain medication or something else.

Years ago, we didn't have to tell people what kind of medications we were giving them.

Nowadays we wonder why they don't ask.

There are consequences to being dishonest about things like that.

Have I ever wondered if the person really needed a pain medicine? Yes. Even when I was the patient. Believe me, I've learned to err on the side of caution and take the pain med when I am in the hospital even when my pain level is a tolerable 4 out of 10, so it doesn't spike after I go to sleep.

Hope that helps.

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I personally would never give a placebo unless ordered by a doctor, I was just wondering if anyone ever feels like giving one? Or would fess up to having done it? Don't shoot the messenger.

I wasn't trying to "shoot the messenger," only pass on info. I apologize if I sounded harsh; maybe I should have thrown in a smilie. :)

BTW, if I were in a situation where a doc ordered a placebo, I would refuse to give it (unless there were documented informed consent of the client on the record) -- for many years now, it has been considered highly unethical practice, and you and the doc would both be putting your licenses at risk. (

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You know how it is when you have these patients who are A&Ox4, laughing, talking on the phone, going out to smoke but when it's time for their IV pain medication all of a sudden "oh I'm hurting so bad, I need my pain medicine" as soon as you give it they get up and go out to smoke. The ones I love are the ones who hold up the closest port when you come in, "here you can give it here" or "you can push it fast, the burn doesn't bother me". Well anyway, I have been so tempted to push NS instead of pain medicine I'm sure this would be illegal if not immoral since we are not supposed to judge a patients level of pain. More than 20 years ago when I worked in a Doctor's office he would occasionally have us give an injection of NS in place of pain medication and the patient was happy and pain was relieved. Any opinions?

Have you considered that the pt is doing so well because their pain is being successfully managed and without the pain meds they know they would be miserable?

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You really have no way of knowing just how much pain a patient is in, or would be in if they did not recieve their medication. I know there are patients out there who abuse pain meds and I'm not saying that the thought of a placebo would never cross my mind but I would NEVER EVER EVER actually do such a thing as you described. If I were the patient or if the patient were one of my family members and I found out that a nurse was messing with myself/family members head, I would not only be highly pi$$ed off:angryfire , I would do EVERYTHING in my power to make sure that the nurse lost their job and their license. Like I said, YOU do not know how much pain someone is in, or would be in with out their meds.

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Specializes in OB, ortho/neuro, home care, office.

A particularly bitter LPN was taking care of the patient I was assigned to. As I was going over my meds with the instructor I got to a med, I know it wasn't normal. Non-diabetic getting glucose. Hmmmm... I asked my instructor about this, because it didn't make any sense. She followed that up by approaching the LPN. The LPN like I said was a very bitter person to work with. She went on to say that this 'guy is always complaining of diarrhea, so we're going to see if this doesn't fix him right up'. Now again, this was in my first year which would've been 2002 - 2003. I didn't think firstly it was appropriate for her to decided that. Knowing very little at the time I was only given the med sheets to go by and the doctors orders weren't available to me. I can't remember what my instructor told her, but I felt it very unprofessional that I actually, as a nursing student, was made to lie about a med to a patient. Especially when they specifically asked about their meds. But at that time again I was very new and wasn't comfortable questioning peoples methods. At this time, I would've.

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I wasn't trying to "shoot the messenger," only pass on info. I apologize if I sounded harsh; maybe I should have thrown in a smilie. :)

BTW, if I were in a situation where a doc ordered a placebo, I would refuse to give it (unless there were documented informed consent of the client on the record) -- for many years now, it has been considered highly unethical practice, and you and the doc would both be putting your licenses at risk. (

That is exactly what I was thinking when I read it - I would never give a placebo even if ordered by a doc.

I consider myself autonomous - even though I do carry out doctor's orders, I'm not a robot and can think for myself.

If I don't think something is safe, I won't give it until things are clarified.

steph

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Specializes in ABMT.

Maybe they really are hurting because they're addicted?

Ya never know...

Does make you wonder sometimes, though...things that make you go hmmmmm

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