MA's know as much as RN's??

Pocahontas98_21 · Jul 19, 2008

I don't think they know more or even on the same education level as RNs but if the doctors, NP, PAs do the assessments then why have RNs. The MAs can get VS, weight, height, history.

1TachyRN, RN · Jul 19, 2008

GilaRRT · Jul 19, 2008

First, you need to understand a vital concept. Just because I am performing the skills of an RN, does not mean that I am educated as an RN. MA's work under a doctor's license and essentially provide skills delegated to them by that physician. However, you can train anybody to do about any skill. For example, I can train you to mix, draw, and inject a gram of ceftriaxone into somebody. However, this does not mean you understand how the med works, medication metabolism, side effects and interactions, excretion, and how to react to any problems. Performing a skill versus having adequate education of the process, physiology, and implications of the skill. I hope this makes sense.

It sounds like the MA was being honest and open about her position and title however. Not another case of somebody masquerading as a nurse.

rachinq · Jul 19, 2008

a girl in my program was an MA for three years before she started the program with me, and she also told me that they do a lot, infact she said that they gave immunizations like the flu shot.....my opinion on that is that they definately dont know as much as an RN, because like some one said before they are simply performing a skill. one thing i had to realize about nursing now that i am almost finished with my program is that, it has a lot to do with assessments, and analyzing the patient from their vitals, to their skin, to how they tolerated a procedure, to what their economic or mental status is. U r in for a whirl wind when u start....the thing that most amazes me is that nurses are tested on everything, including communication skills! i respect MA's, and it probably is true that that clinic doesnt need an independently thinking nurse who can assess and recommend what should be done with the patient.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 19, 2008

Your question isn't really "do MAs know as much as RNs?" (they don't, of course); your question is actually "is this normal for clinics?" and for the most part, the answer is yes.

It's not at all unusual for medical offices, clinics and the like to hire MAs to perform functions that a nurse is not needed for, and to hire LPNs to perform functions an RN is not needed for. It simply isn't cost-effective for them to do so in such a competitive-hiring environment. Why pay for an RN when all they really need done is vitals, data collection, and some simple skills that can be taught as needed? It isn't their function to assess, critically think or teach. They aren't doing anything they aren't directly instructed to. Therefore, they aren't taking the place of a nurse.

The world will always need RNs. Just not in every single domain. It would be nice, but it really isn't crucial.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 19, 2008

The medical assistant works under the auspice of the physician, it is the physician who is supposed to do the assessment and diagnosis of the patient. It is no shock that most private offices would use a medical assistant, I see it every day. I only take issue when the few attempt to explain a medical diagnosis to me-that is where I draw the line and tell them to allow me to speak to the physician-the only person qualified to do this.

juliemcd · Jul 19, 2008

First, you need to understand a vital concept. Just because I am performing the skills of an RN, does not mean that I am educated as an RN. MA's work under a doctor's license and essentially provide skills delegated to them by that physician. However, you can train anybody to do about any skill. For example, I can train you to mix, draw, and inject a gram of ceftriaxone into somebody. However, this does not mean you understand how the med works, medication metabolism, side effects and interactions, excretion, and how to react to any problems. Performing a skill versus having adequate education of the process, physiology, and implications of the skill. I hope this makes sense.
It sounds like the MA was being honest and open about her position and title however. Not another case of somebody masquerading as a nurse.

I am an MA turned RN and I completely agree with the above quote. MA's are primarily trained in school in skills such as phlebotomy, immunizations, VS, procedure assisiting, suture removal, history taking etc.... As an MA, I was trained in all of the above as well as the clerical portion involved in working in a physicians office. After gaining experience, I was also trained by my employer in case manangement, phone triage etc... (scary I know) however I ALWAYS consulted with the PA or physician. Now, being young at the time, I WAS under the "illusion" that I "did everything an RN would do and then some with the difference only being the hourly wage" (I know, I know... WAY OFF!) I even worked for an allergist who trained me to give patient education regarding allergy meds, prevention, resources etc..

As I began nursing school, I realized how completely wrong I was in my assessment of what my latter career was. Being on both ends of the spectrum, It is very hard to judge a career based on just what we "see" compared to what is actually entailed in said career. In other words, we can't make assumptions or judgements about someone's career unless we have actually walked in the shoe's of that career. There are so many facets to a career/profession that we have no way of understanding or seeing unless really in it.

I can see where an MA is coming from as well as where an RN is coming from I guess. However, I NEVER gave a false title when I was an MA. When people called the office asking for a "nurse" I would always say "This is Julie, MA".

I think a lot of MA'a WANT to become RN's and wish they would have taken that route but can't because of resources, time, money, family etx.....

Also, MA's are often misled about what they are actually being trained in, the pay they will recieve and so on. Especially if enrolled in a technical school. 14 years ago, when I attended a technical school, I was told before I enrolled that I would be making 11-12 dollars an hour with my first job. My first job payed $6.50 an hour! When I left the profession 5 years later, I was only making $9.50 an hour.

ThatPoshGirl · Jul 19, 2008

...
I asked her why and she said it was because MA's do everything that RN's do short of administering medication. So by hiring MA's instead of RN's they save a bunch of money.
Now I am NOT putting down MA's at all, but I just can't believe that they know as much as an RN.
...

How did you get "MAs know as much as RN" from that? This MA did not say that, she said that they do the same work as RNs except administering medicine. I think you are unfairly putting word in this MAs mouth. In a clinical setting what she said it true. It is not the same as a hospital where the RN is assessing, communicating with othe professionals, and helping plan the care of a patient. In a clinic the MD is always directly involved with PT care. The MAs job is to room patient and then carry out the MDs orders within the limits of their position.

In California at least, where I was an MA in the 90s, an MA can administer most medications, including vaccinations and narcodics. The only things I could not do was cath, start an IV, or administer lidocaine or other an anaesthetics--things that are almost never done in a clinical setting. That didn't mean that I "knew as much" as an RN or LVN or thought I did. It also doesn't mean that I think I could do what an RN could do in other settings, like a hospital. What an RN would do in a clinic in a clinic is completely different than what an RN does in a hospital.

Perhaps a better way to say it is that if an RN worked in a clinic s/he would be doing the same thing an MA does. I'm not sure why s/he would even want to, it would be a real waste of a hard fought education, in my opinion. Most of the skills that RNs spend years learning and cultivating will not be used in a clinic.

Turd.Ferguson · Jul 19, 2008

MAs referring to themselves as nurses had been posted many times and I not looking to start another discussion about it. However, I did personally verify that this is happening.

This past weekend I had dinner with an old friend who works as an MA. I hadn't seen her in years. Since I've read about it on this forum, I brought up the thing about MAs calling themselves nurses. She said she did it because the doctor referred to the MA as a nurse to the patients.

I asked her if she knew that it's illegal to refer to yourself as a nurse. She said she didn't know it's illegal, but that the doctor does it so the MAs do it, too. (By the way, it is illegal in Kentucky)

KRS 314.031 Unlawful acts relating to nursing.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to call or hold herself or himself out as or use the

title of nurse or to practice or offer to practice as a nurse unless licensed or

privileged under the provisions of this chapter.

She's now in LPN school and admitted that she would look at it differently when she gets her license.

ThatPoshGirl · Jul 19, 2008

MAs referring to themselves as nurses had been posted many times and I not looking to start another discussion about it. However, I did personally verify that this is happening.
This past weekend I had dinner with an old friend who works as an MA. I hadn't seen her in years. Since I've read about it on this forum, I brought up the thing about MAs calling themselves nurses. She said she did it because the doctor referred to the MA as a nurse to the patients.
I asked her if she knew that it's illegal to refer to yourself as a nurse. She said she didn't know it's illegal, but that the doctor does it so the MAs do it, too. (By the way, it is illegal in Kentucky)
KRS 314.031 Unlawful acts relating to nursing.
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to call or hold herself or himself out as or use the
title of nurse or to practice or offer to practice as a nurse unless licensed or
privileged under the provisions of this chapter.
She's now in LPN school and admitted that she would look at it differently when she gets her license.

The OP did not say that this MA referred to herself as a nurse.

kellymoody · Jul 19, 2008

Your question isn't really "do MAs know as much as RNs?" (they don't, of course); your question is actually "is this normal for clinics?" and for the most part, the answer is yes.
It's not at all unusual for medical offices, clinics and the like to hire MAs to perform functions that a nurse is not needed for, and to hire LPNs to perform functions an RN is not needed for. It simply isn't cost-effective for them to do so in such a competitive-hiring environment. Why pay for an RN when all they really need done is vitals, data collection, and some simple skills that can be taught as needed? It isn't their function to assess, critically think or teach. They aren't doing anything they aren't directly instructed to. Therefore, they aren't taking the place of a nurse.
The world will always need RNs. Just not in every single domain. It would be nice, but it really isn't crucial.

Why pay for an RN when all they really need done is vitals, data collection, and some simple skills that can be taught as needed? It isn't their function to assess, critically think or teach. They aren't doing anything they aren't directly instructed to. Therefore, they aren't taking the place of a nurse.

At our local walk-in clinic, the ma there does attempt to teach. She comes out with the printed instructions for medications prescribed by the MD, and goes over side effects, contraindications and such. Isn't that teaching? I thought, okay. I have asked questions and instead of getting a nurse, or MD, she answers!

It is my belief that the MD's allow this to happen, and they do know it is happening, as they don't teach and there isn't an RN there to teach, so who is giving discharge instructions and answering questions, because of the almighty dollar.