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Management Progression Assistance

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Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 12 years experience.

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 12 years experience.

5 hours ago, sleepwalker said:

I think that you absolutely would be qualified for an assistant nurse manager position upon completion of 1 or 2 current years of current bedside nursing experience that involves ever progressive responsibilities. NB: clinical experience is not an equivalent nor is sim lab. 

I'm just not sure what I would learn new from 1-2 years as a bedside nurse when I didn't leave the bedside that long ago and have remained involved in bedside nursing by teaching nursing students and new hire nurses how to be bedside nurses. I'm actually pretty sure I'd be a much better bedside nurse now than with my experience as an educator than I would have been if I had just stayed at the bedside. Going back to the bedside would result in working holidays and weekends regularly (not interested at this point in my career) and it would halve my salary compared to both now and as an ANM. I cannot afford that either. 

JadedCPN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU. Has 15 years experience.

2 hours ago, HOPEforRNs said:

I'm just not sure what I would learn new from 1-2 years as a bedside nurse when I didn't leave the bedside that long ago and have remained involved in bedside nursing by teaching nursing students and new hire nurses how to be bedside nurses. I'm actually pretty sure I'd be a much better bedside nurse now than with my experience as an educator than I would have been if I had just stayed at the bedside. Going back to the bedside would result in working holidays and weekends regularly (not interested at this point in my career) and it would halve my salary compared to both now and as an ANM. I cannot afford that either. 

You’ve received a lot of great opinions and advice here from a variety of nurses, as well as you stating all the recruiters telling you the path you’d need to take. I understand it wasn’t what you were hoping for, but there does seem to be a consensus of sorts. If you’re still persistent of not going that route for the understandable reasons you have listed, just keep applying to any and every job available that does interest you and network as much as you can in hopes that someone is willing to allow you to bypass that route. It may or may not happen, I would definitely be thinking of a plan B just in case.

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 12 years experience.

1 minute ago, JadedCPN said:

You’ve received a lot of great opinions and advice here from a variety of nurses, as well as you stating all the recruiters telling you the path you’d need to take. I understand it wasn’t what you were hoping for, but there does seem to be a consensus of sorts. If you’re still persistent of not going that route for the understandable reasons you have listed, just keep applying to any and every job available that does interest you and network as much as you can in hopes that someone is willing to allow you to bypass that route. It may or may not happen, I would definitely be thinking of a plan B just in case.

I have a great job that I love currently. Long-term, I would prefer to get involved in hospital-based leadership over academic leadership. With my father-in-law being c-suite at a local large healthcare system, he could easily get me a job (assuming I didn't bomb the interview) but I really prefer to get places based on my own merits. I'd hate it if I started off on a bad note because people thought nepotism was involved. I do have some connections of my own as I did an administration minor for my master's and had to do 200 clinical hours in nursing administration. That's where my interest started!

PollywogNP, ADN, BSN, MSN, LPN, NP

Specializes in Med-Surg/Tele/ER/Urgent Care. Has 44 years experience.

9 hours ago, HOPEforRNs said:

I was a bedside RN and charge nurse for years. 

The first line of your first post you state you have been a nurse for 11 years, the last 7 teaching. That leaves a total sum of 4 years bedside experience. This is why you are not management material. You lack basic nursing experience let alone charge nurse experience. Before seeking to become chief nurse executive you need management experience first as unit manager. Even your MSN is in nursing education. Your doctoral degree does not prepare you for nursing administration. I spent 25 years as bedside nurse before choosing clinical focus as FNP, then taught in a BSN program. Your explanations trying to equate taking students to clinical and also nursing faculty committees, skills lab budget are extremely different from being the manager of nursing units. IMO you have less than 5 years bedside experience and are pretty clueless as to what nursing management entails. But your end goal is Chief Nurse. What does the CNO that your FIL invites you to dine with opine about your degree and your nursing experience?

 I know the CNO of one local hospital. We met working in ER 22 years ago where she was charge nurse. She was working on her BSN, went on to get combined MBA/MSN in nursing administration. She ended up as the CNO of that hospital about 7 years after we met. Now had her doctorate, and about 3 years ago became CNO of local hospital. The person that also wanted that position was one of my former students who became ICU nurse quickly picking up charge nurse and 4 years later manager of ICU, earned his MSN Nursing Administration and was assistant CNO but since my former charge nurse had more experience and doctorate the position was hers. 

PollywogNP, ADN, BSN, MSN, LPN, NP

Specializes in Med-Surg/Tele/ER/Urgent Care. Has 44 years experience.

1 hour ago, HOPEforRNs said:

I have a great job that I love currently. Long-term, I would prefer to get involved in hospital-based leadership over academic leadership. With my father-in-law being c-suite at a local large healthcare system, he could easily get me a job (assuming I didn't bomb the interview) but I really prefer to get places based on my own merits. I'd hate it if I started off on a bad note because people thought nepotism was involved. I do have some connections of my own as I did an administration minor for my master's and had to do 200 clinical hours in nursing administration. That's where my interest started!

Really 200 hours as a grad student, the fact that you bring up you FIL getting you a job or that you have connections or so you think speaks volumes. As to your own “ merits “, multiple people have told you, you lack the experience and the degree for your end goal

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 12 years experience.

8 hours ago, PollywogNP said:

The first line of your first post you state you have been a nurse for 11 years, the last 7 teaching. That leaves a total sum of 4 years bedside experience. This is why you are not management material. You lack basic nursing experience let alone charge nurse experience. Before seeking to become chief nurse executive you need management experience first as unit manager. Even your MSN is in nursing education. Your doctoral degree does not prepare you for nursing administration. I spent 25 years as bedside nurse before choosing clinical focus as FNP, then taught in a BSN program. Your explanations trying to equate taking students to clinical and also nursing faculty committees, skills lab budget are extremely different from being the manager of nursing units. IMO you have less than 5 years bedside experience and are pretty clueless as to what nursing management entails. But your end goal is Chief Nurse. What does the CNO that your FIL invites you to dine with opine about your degree and your nursing experience?

 I know the CNO of one local hospital. We met working in ER 22 years ago where she was charge nurse. She was working on her BSN, went on to get combined MBA/MSN in nursing administration. She ended up as the CNO of that hospital about 7 years after we met. Now had her doctorate, and about 3 years ago became CNO of local hospital. The person that also wanted that position was one of my former students who became ICU nurse quickly picking up charge nurse and 4 years later manager of ICU, earned his MSN Nursing Administration and was assistant CNO but since my former charge nurse had more experience and doctorate the position was hers. 

Yes, I worked 4 years as a bedside RN full-time before going into academia. However, I remained working contingent (and worked quite a bit in the Summer) until my third child was born almost a year ago. At that point, I had inadequate childcare or childcare that would result in a financial loss so I left the bedside altogether. I may reevaluate next year when my oldest starts kindergarten. It's just not my primary job. I do it because I feel like anyone who teaches nurses should know what is going on at the bedside. 

The CNO agrees I would be great in the position, despite my experience being atypical. But she also knows me moderately well at this point. She agrees my approach is atypical and it is unfortunate that hospitals are so linear in what they look for. She also wishes hospitals would diversify their administration. 

How do you know my doctorate degree doesn't prepare me? I mean, no degree in the world is alone sufficient to prepare someone for a role like that. But the degree is 50% designed to prepare healthcare educators for leadership positions in academia and 50% designed to prepare healthcare professionals for healthcare management/leadership positions. I'll be sure to let the program know you think 50% of their degree is adequate. 

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 12 years experience.

8 hours ago, PollywogNP said:

Really 200 hours as a grad student, the fact that you bring up you FIL getting you a job or that you have connections or so you think speaks volumes. As to your own “ merits “, multiple people have told you, you lack the experience and the degree for your end goal

I never said I was looking to get hired as a CNO right now. I'm looking for an ANM position. So I can start working my way up. I worked 4 years full-time as a bedside RN as well as occasional charge nurse (as everyone did). I stayed on contingent until my 3rd kid was born almost a year ago. Personally, I do not see the benefit of returning to the bedside full-time. I'd be losing my M-F childcare, halving my salary, and losing weekends and holidays with my family. And what would I gain that is essential that I didn't have from precepting, being a clinical instructor, working 4 years as a bedside RN (an sometimes as charge) + 6 years contingent as a bedside RN with only 1 year away from a bedside RN but maintaining time at the bedside as a clinical instructor? Seems to be like the cost is way higher than the gain. 

sleepwalker, MSN, NP

Specializes in Occupational Health. Has 17 years experience.

21 minutes ago, HOPEforRNs said:

I never said I was looking to get hired as a CNO right now. I'm looking for an ANM position. So I can start working my way up. I worked 4 years full-time as a bedside RN as well as occasional charge nurse (as everyone did). I stayed on contingent until my 3rd kid was born almost a year ago. Personally, I do not see the benefit of returning to the bedside full-time. I'd be losing my M-F childcare, halving my salary, and losing weekends and holidays with my family. And what would I gain that is essential that I didn't have from precepting, being a clinical instructor, working 4 years as a bedside RN (an sometimes as charge) + 6 years contingent as a bedside RN with only 1 year away from a bedside RN but maintaining time at the bedside as a clinical instructor? Seems to be like the cost is way higher than the gain. 

This is just a circular argument with the same rationales that multiple individuals have stated are inadequate for the position and career path you're seeking.  The idiom "you don't know what you don't know" keeps coming to mind....

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 12 years experience.

21 minutes ago, sleepwalker said:

This is just a circular argument with the same rationales that multiple individuals have stated are inadequate for the position and career path you're seeking.  The idiom "you don't know what you don't know" keeps coming to mind....

Yet nobody can tell me what I'm missing. Please fill me in. I keep asking but nobody will answer. Here's a summary. 

4 years FT bedside nurse with 2 as a charge nurse. Additional 6 years as a contingent bedside RN (2 shifts a month during the school year, 2 shifts a week during the Summer). In the Summer, I work 16 hours a week running new hire orientation for new hire med/surg nurses. Away from the bedside as an RN for 11 months at this point but have been there with students and precepting new hires this Summer. 

7 years as a professor teaching didactic, lab, and clinical. Manage 10 clinical instructors and 166 students. Also manage over 500 simulations and labs a year along with a $300,000 budget for this. Also in charge is hiding, scheduling, and managing 7 student workers a year to work in the skills lab. 

MSN in nursing education with my cognate in administration. Doctorate in progress (50% educational leadership. 50% hospital leadership/administration). 

What else do I need to add to my resume to be competitive for an assistant nurse manager of a hospital unit?

sleepwalker, MSN, NP

Specializes in Occupational Health. Has 17 years experience.

37 minutes ago, HOPEforRNs said:

Yet nobody can tell me what I'm missing. Please fill me in. I keep asking but nobody will answer. Here's a summary. 

4 years FT bedside nurse with 2 as a charge nurse. Additional 6 years as a contingent bedside RN (2 shifts a month during the school year, 2 shifts a week during the Summer). In the Summer, I work 16 hours a week running new hire orientation for new hire med/surg nurses. Away from the bedside as an RN for 11 months at this point but have been there with students and precepting new hires this Summer. 

7 years as a professor teaching didactic, lab, and clinical. Manage 10 clinical instructors and 166 students. Also manage over 500 simulations and labs a year along with a $300,000 budget for this. Also in charge is hiding, scheduling, and managing 7 student workers a year to work in the skills lab. 

MSN in nursing education with my cognate in administration. Doctorate in progress (50% educational leadership. 50% hospital leadership/administration). 

What else do I need to add to my resume to be competitive for an assistant nurse manager of a hospital unit?

You need RELEVANT work experience, leadership, and management. Your 4 years as a beside nurse was 7 yrs ago and 1 of those years (at least) consisted of new grad development and growth culminating in being an "occasional charge nurse"...not exactly impressive. All the other experiences/duties you note are not relevant...they sound nice but do not contribute to in-house experience, leadership, and management. Your education, while laudable, does not make you a more viable candidate than someone with years (I.e. 10+) of in-house experience, management, and leadership...and there are plenty of individuals with Master degrees or multiple Master's degrees, Doctorates, etc.

In sum...your current CV is not adequate for your career goal. 

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN

Specializes in school nurse. Has 29 years experience.

Actually, you might be happier staying in academia. Why start over at this point? If you wanted to "spice up" your career, maybe you could design educational programs for implementation in hospitals.

A good "charge nurse development course" comes to mind as something worth doing...

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 12 years experience.

1 hour ago, sleepwalker said:

You need RELEVANT work experience, leadership, and management. Your 4 years as a beside nurse was 7 yrs ago and 1 of those years (at least) consisted of new grad development and growth culminating in being an "occasional charge nurse"...not exactly impressive. All the other experiences/duties you note are not relevant...they sound nice but do not contribute to in-house experience, leadership, and management. Your education, while laudable, does not make you a more viable candidate than someone with years (I.e. 10+) of in-house experience, management, and leadership...and there are plenty of individuals with Master degrees or multiple Master's degrees, Doctorates, etc.

In sum...your current CV is not adequate for your career goal. 

Well, an occasional charge nurse is the only option. At all the hospitals in my area.... after you've been a nurse for 2 years you have to go to training to be a charge nurse and you get put in the rotation to take a charge assignment. Being a charge nurse is not a regular assignment - everyone rotates through it. 

Also - I would think you would never find someone with 10+ years of in-house experience in management and leadership willing to take an assistant nurse manager position on a unit. They'd likely want to be higher up than that. Where do you see ANMs requiring 10+ years of leadership and management experience? And if you need 10+ years to get that job... what type of experience is it?