Management Progression Assistance

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Jul 9, 2021

I truly do not mean this disrespectfully, but it causes a bit of dissonance in my head when considering the concept of someone managing (and teaching) a thing that they actually want to avoid doing.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that all nursing management should be pulling at least one floor/unit shift a month.

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN · Jul 9, 2021

3 minutes ago, Jedrnurse said:

I truly do not mean this disrespectfully, but it causes a bit of dissonance in my head when considering the concept of someone managing (and teaching) a thing that they actually want to avoid doing.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that all nursing management should be pulling at least one floor/unit shift a month.

I agree with you -- management is often far too removed from reality to be effective. Unit managers should be very hands-on and involved in the day-to-day operations of the unit at a minimum. Higher-up management and leadership should be visiting the units and chatting with the staff on a regular basis. There should be no "ivory tower" feeling. I've had such horrible experiences with managers throughout my career. I aim to change that.

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN · Jul 9, 2021

Also, I don't hate the bedside. I take nursing students to the bedside and I help onboard new hire nurses as well. I spend a lot of time at the bedside. I can love and enjoy doing all of that, but aim for a career other than a bedside nurse. ?

JBMmom, MSN, NP · Jul 9, 2021

Unfortunately, I think you're going to be stuck with a very individual response based on the organizations looking to hire for these positions. There may be an organization that will consider your experience relevant, however, most will expect a nurse manager has moved up through entry and intermediate level positions. You have to decide whether it's worth it for you to expand your search, consider relocating, etc. if you can find an organization willing to hire you based on your background, or you'll have to jump and start from the bottom. I can see being frustrated with that option given the years of education you have put it, but you can't change the expectations of employers. You will either meet their requirements or you won't. Good luck!

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN · Jul 10, 2021

5 hours ago, JBMmom said:

Unfortunately, I think you're going to be stuck with a very individual response based on the organizations looking to hire for these positions. There may be an organization that will consider your experience relevant, however, most will expect a nurse manager has moved up through entry and intermediate level positions. You have to decide whether it's worth it for you to expand your search, consider relocating, etc. if you can find an organization willing to hire you based on your background, or you'll have to jump and start from the bottom. I can see being frustrated with that option given the years of education you have put it, but you can't change the expectations of employers. You will either meet their requirements or you won't. Good luck!

I was just taken aback that they don't really consider any experience outside of directly in a hospital to be actual experience. Management and leadership skills aren't developed in a bubble. There's not much difference between leading nursing students, leading nurse faculty, and leading nurses. Having a variety of backgrounds and experiences in leadership positions should add diversity and thus value. It's really unfortunate. Just like I say that nursing professors should also know how to teach... nurse managers and nurse leaders should have leadership skills. Both of those require both education and experience and you can't fully substitute one for the other.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Jul 10, 2021

12 hours ago, HOPEforRNs said:

Higher-up management and leadership should be visiting the units and chatting with the staff on a regular basis.

I don't think that chats are a substitute for rolling up your sleeves and taking a shift, though it would be better than what some managers/administrators currently do. I stand by my original concept- if you're a licensed nurse and supervise those who provide care, you should have to "do it" yourself every so often.

SmilingBluEyes · Jul 10, 2021

Are you willing to relocate to get this kind of position? It really may come down to that.

SmilingBluEyes · Jul 10, 2021

18 hours ago, HOPEforRNs said:

Hello! I have been an RN for 11 years. I have spent the past 7 years working full-time as a nursing professor. I have my BSN and MSN (nursing education) and I am finishing up my EdD in healthcare leadership. My long-term career goal is a Chief Nursing Officer or Chief Nurse Executive. I have not worked as a bedside RN for the past few years outside of contingent in the Summer (off work as a professor), but I do take students to the hospital for clinical, teach in the skills lab, and teach in the classroom. I also work as a contingent clinical educator for a local health system. I'm also involved in committee leadership, mentoring, and research. Given my upcoming graduation, I decided to look into jobs to transition into a leadership role within the hospital setting. Basically, they do not consider my doctorate degree as any experience or leg up nor do they consider my academic leadership experience as relevant. I have been told by all recruiters that I would need to start at the beginning -- go back to a bedside nurse, then charge nurse, then assistant nurse manager, then nurse manager, then director, etc etc etc.... Any advice here? I'd really like to not go back to a bedside nurse. I love not working nights/evenings/weekends/holidays all the time. I have a lot of leadership experience in academia and I will have a doctorate in healthcare leadership soon. Send help! Any ideas of what I can do here?

You may like this but in reality, CNOs often DO have to come in nights/weekends when the stuff is hitting the fan. It does not sound as if you are willing to do what it takes to me. JMHO. Good luck anyhow.

Guest 1152923 · Jul 10, 2021

19 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:

I truly do not mean this disrespectfully, but it causes a bit of dissonance in my head when considering the concept of someone managing (and teaching) a thing that they actually want to avoid doing.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that all nursing management should be pulling at least one floor/unit shift a month.

H-E, double hockeys stick YES! 100%^^^^^

JKL33 · Jul 10, 2021

I don't think it's so much that they want to make you struggle up through the ranks as it is that your leadership experience has a different enough focus that you quite possibly don't have the actual experience for the role you seek. I say this speaking very generally and with the caveat that some people have managed to gain wider experiences than what simple past role titles might suggest.

I don't see why re-starting in a staff bedside role is necessary, but unit manager, unit director and of course service line director are certainly relevant. I think you are being a little naïve in the way you are describing the interchangeability of different leadership areas. For example leading/teaching/guiding 5-10 pre-licensure students seems equivalent to barely getting one's feet wet in general leadership. The same with being a leader amongst your colleagues who are also teaching students. Frankly the staff charge nurse role seems more relevant than some of these.

You need to look at this realistically. I mean this to just be straightforward/real talk, not harsh....but some of what you are saying sounds like a young adult whose only job has been watching 2 kids all Summer then describing that as experience running a business, experience being a lifeguard, experience running a taxi fleet and experience being a 'personal chef'....YKWIM? Yes, the things you have done are important and there's no doubt you have learned a lot being a boots-on-the-ground leader in your various roles. I just don't think it is probably the same as all that goes into executive decision-making and producing results and directing the entire nursing service line. Etc.

I could be wrong. But best to think it through now so you can get on a realistic track to your goal. Best of luck!

SmilingBluEyes · Jul 10, 2021

I agree starting back at the bedside as a staff nurse is not necessary. But at least have experience in a charge nurse and management role before taking on what is effectively an executive position. You'll be more confident and have the respect of your staff.