malpractice?

SmilingBluEyes · Oct 27, 2003

I agree with the wise poster who said not to take advice from the internet. That is a fools' game. But you do have our deepest sympathies. Truly sorry for the grief and pain this horrendous incident causes you and your family!

nurseygrrl, LPN · Oct 27, 2003

mednurse ~ I am very sorry for the loss of your father. I know how hard that is. I lost my dad also. He had a crummy doctor who made a lot of poor choices when it came to my dad's care. This was long before I was a nurse, so I didn't really know much either. I feel, although somewhat indirectly, he was responsible for my dad's death. My mother and I decided against legal action because it would have been a difficult case to prove. It wasn't cut and dried. I do however, pray that this doctor gets a taste of his own medicine (pun intended) one day. Whether or not you pursue this legally, that is your own personal choice. I just hope you can find closure.

BarbPick · Oct 27, 2003

This was brought up to get feedback and that is what is happening. "Don't listen to advice on the Internet"

Gimme a break, MedNurse is not giving legal business to someone who has legal services on EBAY.....

ktwlpn, LPN · Oct 27, 2003

Originally posted by sjoe
avigail writes: "I think you should contact a lawyer."

With exactly WHAT as a goal?--

1) $$$$$$$?

2) To "teach them a lesson so it won't happen to others?" (Like this would increase staffing ratios, etc. and correct the problems that create these kinds of situations in the first place.)

3) For revenge against the nurse? against the facility? against death?

4) To bring him back? (Handled differently, would his quality of life, as contrasted to length of life, likely been substantially prolonged?)

5) To repeatedly re-open this family wound for the 3-5+ years a lawsuit would require?

Attorneys do not have the solution to every unwanted healthcare outcome, IMHO.

Maybe because it is within the rights of the family to do so? I think we all know the standard protocol here-even without knowing both sides of the story...We all know that frivvy lawsuits abound-but are you saying that there are no grounds for ANY medical malpractice suits? I agree that lawyers don't have the answers to the problems within the healthcare system but if there are no consequences for these actions nothing will ever change..Money will not bring the person back-but it will help support his wife..It could change things at that hospital- maybe that particular nurse is suspected of being incompetent.. maybe she was swamped...I am sure the families wound would heal with disclosure of the facts.....Who knows what would have happened if this were handled differently but he was a relatively young person and would have had many years of life left to him...I can't come up with a scenario that would excuse this nurse from not following the protocol---shift change? I would not have left his bedside....If she had another patient coding I can see a problem...but still no excuse.

SmilingBluEyes · Oct 27, 2003

No,this person seems to be asking professional opinions, here, in the name of getting answers. And I do not believe those answer LIE HERE ON THE INTERNET. We dont 'have all the facts and never will and most of us are not lawyers. I think it is inappropriate to advise someone whether a case is constituted as malpractice online, especially of non-lawyers not familiar with any specifics of a case.

Grief, now that we all can empathise with. THAT I can address because I am truly sorry a loved one was lost. MALPRACTICE? I don't know that for sure and neither do the rest of us, without doubt. THAT was what I was attempting to say by not "taking advice on the internet."

fab4fan · Oct 28, 2003

Exactly, Deb. There are two sides to this situation, and without all the facts, the best anyone can do is guess.

mednurse · Oct 28, 2003

Honestly, I really wanted to know what other nurses thought of the situation. My Dad died at a hospital that shares medical staff and nurses with ours, so I do not want to bring up this topic with my coworkers. If I need legal advice, I will contact an attorney. Of course, I have my own opinions about my Dad's death, I am not looking for them here. I needed to see some thoughts of RN's because sometimes I feel my non-medical family does not understand.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by LydiaGreen
The goal is likely closure. How that is achieved is not really for any of us to judge. It is truly up to the family involved. Whatever direction you chose to go in, good luck to you, I hope that it brings the closure that your family needs.

I agree. No one here can know what this nurse did or didn't do. I would not want to second guess her. This would not be fair.

I am sorry for the loss of your father.

vaughanmk · Oct 28, 2003

I know that on our CICU/ step down units the MD doesn't have to be called when pt having cp. But, the stepdown unit will not accept a patient currently haveing chest pain as a transfer out of the CICU.

Other than that I don't want to go there. I am sorry for your loss, I hope you can get some closure on the situation.

Nursie30 · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by tonchitoRN
sorry about your loss.

what you have witnessed is the erosion of medical care today. nurses are overworked and they can't be perfect. the system is getting worse. this is what happens: people get hurt and worse. never put the care of your loved one into the hands of another and expect them to do the job 100%. they are human and are sometimes faced with pressure to d/c patients before they need to be. they are being asked to do more and more everyday without appropriate resources. now is not the time to blame but maybe later you can put your energies into something productive i.e. advocating for better working conditions for nurses. nurses at the bedside is what saves lives.

What? What? :eek:

Nitro administration has clear cut directions for administration, chest pain, nitro, 5 min still chest pain, nitro, 5 min still chest pain nitro, 5 min still chest pain, call the doctor........

Of course nurses are overworked, but that doesn't in any way mean that if you fail to do your job, no matter what your resources, that you should be exempt from any repercussions.

Acute patient, after surger w/ chest pain, yeah she was probably negligent if this is the actual case (haven't heard the other side) I don't think a judge, who is probably overworked and overwhelmed himself with his job, is going to have mercy if the defense is, I'm sorry I just didn't have time to do my job.

stevierae · Oct 28, 2003

Of course, as others have stated, no one should be finding fault with anyone without a careful and thorough review of the records. There are so many unanswered questions here.

Was this possibly a dissecting aortic aneurysm? (in the news lately because of John Ritter.) Could it have dissected above the graft post-op--if that was the cause of the chest pain, then nitro wouldn't have helped, nor would vasopressors, and possibly not even an immediate return to surgery. These patients sometimes are not lucky enough to even make it to the ICU post-op--the aorta continues to dissect, and they die on the table.

Read up on the statistics about dissecting aortic aneurysm if that's what it was----usually a grim situation despite the very best medical and surgical efforts and technology.

If the chest pain WAS indeed simply angina--did he have a hx of MI? Was he having an acute MI? Had he had a previous CABG? Was a 12 lead EKG, cardiac enzymes, surgical consult done? CT, ultrasound, MRI to rule out a surgical component--that is, to determine what was going on with the aorta, and if the graft was sitll patent? Did you talk with the intensivist, the anesthesiologist and his surgeon and get your questions answered?

If an autopsy was done, ask for the autopsy report, if it will help with closure, or to help you to decide how to proceed. I am very sorry for your loss of your dad at such a young age--I sent you a p.m. with some other thoughts. God bless you.