Male modesty double standard

Nurses Relations

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While working in the trauma room in a large US city I witnessed this scenario of the double standard of modesty for male patients many times.The police would routinely walk in the trauma room and were allowed to stand around and watch as patients were put through the necessary but extremely embarrassing ordeal required in trauma resucitation. If the patient was a female the curtains would be immediately closed and kept closed until the entire trauma procedure was complete. If the patient was a male the curtains were always left open and the police officers which often included female officers were allowed to watch as the patient was stripped naked, under went a digital rectal exam and catheterized. Allowing the police especially female police officers to watch this is blatant patient abuse. I think people should consider suing the hospitals as this double standard of modesty for male patients is an extreme violation of medical ethics and standards of decency that are supposed to apply to all patients. Police should not be allowed to enter the trauma room in the first place without permission or be allowed to " hang out " there while patients are being treated.

OP - Perhaps you could advocate for a policy change to protect Pt rights within your facility. Show us some data that proves there is no need for the protective presence of the officers and that Pt outcomes improve. Perhaps

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But the question remains why the disparity in privacy/dignity afforded between male and female patients, regardless of whether their suspects or not? Would male police officers, assuming they had a legitimate interest in being in the ER, be permitted to witness trauma procedures on female patients? If not, why is it okay for female police officers to view male patients. And please don't cite the trite and overused "their professionals too" excuse. This whole issue pervades healthcare from top to bottom where gals are automatically afforded the greatest accommodations possible and the guys are just supposed to suck it up and deal with it.

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Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
Let's all be honest here, abuses happen and dignity is commonly overlooked for convenience.

I plead guilty here! I prefer the convenience of not being assaulted by a violent criminal.

Before some screams "not all prisoners are violent," if prison guards bring in a prisoner in handcuffs and tell my they cannot leave the room for everyones safety, I consider said prisoner violent. It might be a "violation" of their dignity to not have the guards leave, however, they are staying…they are in the room when doctor does a rectal…they are in the room when nurses straight cath the pt. That is how it is going to be, and no one can convince me that is wrong.

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Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
I ask you what about those such as him who do not have a head injury? What do you say to those people? It is a darn if you do, darn if you don't situation. Do you just write him off as saying "I was doing my job?"

So again I pose the question, what does the attending owe Brian Persaud morally and ethically? (He did not even get an apology.)

If the person does not have a head injury or anything else that makes him possibly impaired (drugs, etOH, etc.) and the patient steadfastly refuses the rectal, then, no, the doctor cannot do it, and "just doing my job" is not a acceptable rationale.

I admit, I have never heard of Brian Persaud before now--but based on what I have read--no, IMHO, the doctor does not owe him anything.

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If you're worried about your own safety then having the police in the room should give you plenty of protection making it possible for you to close the curtains for male patients who where not prisoners. Surely you don't think every male patient brought in is a threat to you. There shouldn't be any reason then to expose them unnecessarily to non medical personnel. The towel covering a patients genitals must be removed in order to catheterize him so this argument that the modesty of male patients is always protected can't true. I only gave a few examples of the cases I witnessed but I saw the same thing over and over again which was the complete disregard for a male patient's dignity.

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Specializes in Emergency Room, Trauma ICU.
If you're worried about your own safety then having the police in the room should give you plenty of protection making it possible for you to close the curtains for male patients who where not prisoners. Surely you don't think every male patient brought in is a threat to you. There shouldn't be any reason then to expose them unnecessarily to non medical personnel. The towel covering a patients genitals must be removed in order to catheterize him so this argument that the modesty of male patients is always protected can't true. I only gave a few examples of the cases I witnessed but I saw the same thing over and over again which was the complete disregard for a male patient's dignity.

Umm you know the towel has to be removed from the females genitalia to cath her too, right? I've never seen a pt cathed with curtains open, EVER. So acting like it happens every shift every day is ridiculous. You refuse to listen to what multiple experienced nurses have tried to tell you, so I can only thing that you're just looking for a fight, rather than a chance to learn and understand. And that's a shame because there are a lot of brilliant nurses on this thread.

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Specializes in Emergency Room, Trauma ICU.
But the question remains why the disparity in privacy/dignity afforded between male and female patients, regardless of whether their suspects or not? Would male police officers, assuming they had a legitimate interest in being in the ER, be permitted to witness trauma procedures on female patients?

If it's a trauma pt and the cops are with them why would they leave the room, regardless of gender? Either they are a suspect and in custody, or their a witness/victim and the cops may need info and/or evidence. And if someone's life is on the line, then gender doesn't matter. Or are you okay telling someones family they died because there was a cop of the opposite gender in the room? Or explain to a nurses family that they were assaulted because you wanted the cop out of the room? You seem to have no idea how things actually work in an ER/Trauma room.

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It's called sarcasm...so I apologize for using it, but you were the one who said "ptsd is funny."

are you not an English speaker? funny has more than one meaning, and in banterings context it was obvious it meant odd, not humorous.

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Brian Persaud, was treated, in my opinion, very poorly. and to then be shipped off to jail! he rationally declined treatment, and it was forced on him and then he was charged with assault for resisting the treatment he refused. Frankly i think he lost because he wasn't squeaky clean from the legal pov.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Brian Persaud, was treated, in my opinion, very poorly. and to then be shipped off to jail! he rationally declined treatment, and it was forced on him and then he was charged with assault for resisting the treatment he refused. Frankly i think he lost because he wasn't squeaky clean from the legal pov.
He was charged with assault because he punched a MD in the face. He was combative which is common in head injured patients. If the trauma patient is uncooperative to the extreme (punching the MD in the face) they are sedated, intubated, given the trauma work up as per the standard of care, extubated (if nothing is found) and discharged.

I realize he walked into the ED....however I have had many patients walk into the ED that are gravely injured. I remember on case in particular a guy fell in the bathroom and said his neck was sore....something told me he had a problem even though first survey, in triage, revealed nothing significant. I placed him in a C-Collar. He had 2 cervical fracture nd needed a HALO traction for several months.

We rally all the time about violence in the workplace but when a patient, that was eventually deemed competent, is arrested we are offended. Patients scream and carry on in the ED ALL the time. If we listened every time we heard "NO. NO! NO!! You bunch of *&^(%*^#$%#%&^$%#$@#%"...there would be many lawsuits for delay of treatment and failure to diagnose.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
If you're worried about your own safety then having the police in the room should give you plenty of protection making it possible for you to close the curtains for male patients who where not prisoners. Surely you don't think every male patient brought in is a threat to you. There shouldn't be any reason then to expose them unnecessarily to non medical personnel. The towel covering a patients genitals must be removed in order to catheterize him so this argument that the modesty of male patients is always protected can't true. I only gave a few examples of the cases I witnessed but I saw the same thing over and over again which was the complete disregard for a male patient's dignity.
I am curious...where are you in obtaining your paramedic certification? Of course the towel is removed for catherization it would be extremely difficult to catheterize someone through a towel.

The patient d you witnessed may have been exposed unnecessarily..however in my 35 years experience that is NOT a common occurrence.

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the doc was only struck in self defense AFTER the patient made it clear he was refusing and the doc insisted on doing the exam, AGAINST the patient's stated wishes. up to that point, and including that point there was no behavioral issues that would belie a brain injury. if that exam was so important why wasn't it done first?

He was charged with assault because he punched a MD in the face. He was combative which is common in head injured patients. If the trauma patient is uncooperative to the extreme (punching the MD in the face) they are sedated, intubated, given the trauma work up as per the standard of care, extubated (if nothing is found) and discharged.

I realize he walked into the ED....however I have had many patients walk into the ED that are gravely injured. I remember on case in particular a guy fell in the bathroom and said his neck was sore....something told me he had a problem even though first survey, in triage, revealed nothing significant. I placed him in a C-Collar. He had 2 cervical fracture nd needed a HALO traction for several months.

We rally all the time about violence in the workplace but when a patient, that was eventually deemed competent, is arrested we are offended. Patients scream and carry on in the ED ALL the time. If we listened every time we heard "NO. NO! NO!! You bunch of *&^(%*^#$%#%&^$%#$@#%"...there would be many lawsuits for delay of treatment and failure to diagnose.

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