MA saying she's "the same as an RN"

[RedSox33RN]

At my job, we are offered classes each month for our CEU's as LNA's. We were at one the other day for some psych training, and we were asked what we wanted to be doing in 5 years. Myself and another woman said that hopefully we be all graduated and working as RN's, since we're both in nursing school.

Another woman said that she was graduating next week from an Medical Assistant program, and how it was "exactly the same as being an RN", but she got her degree faster, but won't get the same money (and she proceeded to b!tch about that).

Now, I've seen the debate here in the General Nursing discussion, but this just chapped my rearend. I think MA's are great - as are LNA's and LPN's and RN's and everyone that works in healthcare. A friend of mine is an MA, but she does not pass herself off as a nurse. Another friend is a Surgical Tech, and while she doesn't say she's an RN, her son calls her a nurse, saying his mom told him she did "more" nursing in the OR than the nurses do. I've corrected him twice about it, but don't anymore. It just bugs me that I'm busting my hump to become an RN, yet anyone that works in healthcare feels they can call themselves one.

I'm so careful, I don't even call myself an SN while at work, and don't call myself an LNA while in clinical!

I don't know why people can't be proud of what they are. Some of the best tips and knowledge I've gotten on the job has been from the LNA's, many of which are career LNA's. THey're damn good at what they do! It's bothersome that some feel it all comes down to you're either a nurse, or have to claim to be one to be recognized.

Anyway, I kept my mouth shut when this LNA/MA was going off, but I so wanted to say, "So if you're the same as an RN, why won't the hospital or the state recognize you as one? Why? Because you aren't. You may as well call yourself an astronaut. You aren't one of those either!"

Okay, back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[atwtrn]

We can if everyone agrees on scope of practice and truth in labeling. And then sticks to it.

I'm just trying to say that we can all agree that there is a difference between the training and scope of practice of RNs and MAs but that we all want to care for the patient. The patient needs the Doc, the Nurse, the NP..but he or she also needs individuals to help get the care paid for, help get Rxs called in and so many other things. MAs often run the office. Without them, other health care profs couldn't do their work. It's a health care pyramid. Without the support on the bottom, the top falls...

[sunnyjohn]

The last post on this thread was nearly one year ago before it was dug up.

MA's are not nurses but they do serve a purpose.

[azrn08]

This is kind of a good argument for all those who think the entry into nursing out to be BSN.

Do we won't MA or ADN, MA or LVN/LPN, MA or CNA/LNA? Something these nurses need to think about who are of this opinion (BSN entry), is that these MA do not speak the same language as nursing and do not use the same process, ADPIE. Also, as evidenced in the above discussions, they don't RESPECT nurses or nursing practice.

If we phase these levels out, they'll be next, replacing PA for NP, etc. Hell MA for BSN.

I'm probably wrong but I don't think 2 year program is the norm for these MA. Most of the time, when I'm watching Jerry Springer they advertise MA schools that take only 9 mos. to a year.

Let me tell you about an experience I had with an MA not long ago. Have this female, identifying herself as a "nurse", call our HH with a telephone order from a certain MD. She says, Dr. so and so wants the family to continue their current dose of Coumadin. I say, what is their current dose regimen. She hems, she haws, puts me on hold, gotta look at this, gotta look at that, finally she says "Oh the family knows what the dosage is." WHAT! What th' H-E-Double L! I don't think so! Also, I ask her for her name, which she promptly tells me, then I ask are you an LVN or an RN (remember she identified herself as a nurse when she called), reluctantly she says, "I'm a MA."

Okay, I don't except the order as valid and so I confirm it with the physician, # 1, doesn't include the 5 rights of medication, # 2 she's not licensed that I know of. I mean they're certified but are they licensed? And if so by what standard, etc.? I ask my DON, she don't know. I call my state BON. Guess what? They don't know either and in turn refer to national pharmacy & medical association websites...

Now we know why nurses go through 'Burnout'

[arciedee]

We can if everyone agrees on scope of practice and truth in labeling. And then sticks to it.

:yeahthat:

We're not debating the legitimacy of MAs, we're discussing the use of the title "nurse". My (large) doctor's office utilizes many of them and I have no problem with this. They are skilled at what they do. My issue is that if I am having an urgent problem and call the office I want to talk to someone who has a nurse's scope of practice to evaluate my needs, figure out how soon I need to come in, etc. When offices such as this toss around the "nurse" title (and I have had quite a few "nurse's visits" at this office that are actually with the MAs) I don't know if I'm actually talking to an RN/LPN or an MA. The point is that we should be able to trust that the person from the doctor's office is who they say they are, whether it's the MA, RN, or secretary.

[rn/writer, RN]

:yeahthat:

We're not debating the legitimacy of MAs, we're discussing the use of the title "nurse". My (large) doctor's office utilizes many of them and I have no problem with this. They are skilled at what they do. My issue is that if I am having an urgent problem and call the office I want to talk to someone who has a nurse's scope of practice to evaluate my needs, figure out how soon I need to come in, etc. When offices such as this toss around the "nurse" title (and I have had quite a few "nurse's visits" at this office that are actually with the MAs) I don't know if I'm actually talking to an RN/LPN or an MA. The point is that we should be able to trust that the person from the doctor's office is who they say they are, whether it's the MA, RN, or secretary.

Exactly!

Docs are partly to blame. If they don't give their employees nametags with the correct title clearly visible, if they refer to their MAs as nurses or don't correct others when they (the MAs themselves, other staff, the patients) use the wrong term, and if they allow MAs to identify themselves on the phone as' "Dr. So-and-so's nurse," the docs are contributing to the problem. By remaining silent or outright fostering the illusion, they project the image of these folks being licensed staff while they pay them a lesser rate. This might make their patients feel good, but it's dishonest, no matter how you slice it.

Again, no slam against MAs. The can be tremendously valuable in a clinic or office setting as many of them are dually trained to handle the clerical side as well as the medical.

What I am objecting to is the presentation of MAs (no matter who is doing it) as licensed nurses when they are not.

[CrazyHands]

What exactly is a MA's scope of practice?? At my Doctor's office, it seems like they hire MA's instead of Nurses these days... In fact, the MA comes in before the Doctor, and MA's are able to give injections! At least my Doctor's MA admitted that she wasn't a Nurse...

i'm not sure where the line is drawn as far as medical adminstration for MA's, but that were me I would call the state board of nursing and see if they can tell where to look. Anyway, according to salarty.com they define MA as:

Medical Assistant

Assists in examination and treatment of patients under the direction of a physician. Interviews patients, measures vital signs (i.e., pulse rate, temperature, blood pressure, weight, and height), and records information on patients' charts. May be required to draw and collect blood samples from patients and prepare specimens for laboratory analysis. Prepares treatment rooms for examination of patients. Requires a high school diploma and medical assistant certificate and 0-2 years of experience in a related field. Familiar with standard concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on limited experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals. Performs a variety of tasks. Typically reports to supervisor or manager.

They make about half of what RN's make in my state (NJ).

Surg Tech's only make about 60% of Scrub Nurses or only half of what a Surgical First Assistant would make. in my opinon, I guess they call themselves RN to make them feel better about the fact they couldn't make into nursing school.

CrazyHands

[rainy scarlett]

:yeahthat:

...when offices such as this toss around the "nurse" title (and i have had quite a few "nurse's visits" at this office that are actually with the mas) i don't know if i'm actually talking to an rn/lpn or an ma. the point is that we should be able to trust that the person from the doctor's office is who they say they are, whether it's the ma, rn, or secretary.

i agree with arciedee~~office staff should identify themselves according to their title.

as far as mas & mds referring to the ma as a "nurse" it should be pointed out to the doctor that is illegal to assume the title of "nurse" if they are not listed at the state board of nursing as an

lpn/rn. i think that more people need to confront their doctors on this point. now we are not "patients" anymore we are "clients or customers" and most doctors offices are aware that there are a lot of healthcare choices out there and they are interested in keeping their "clients happy." after dealing with a nasty, incompetent resident with one of my kids once, i have no problem asking for identification or clarification of the credenitals of providers taking care of me or my family.

[nd deb]

I went to school for a MA in the 90s. We were told that in a clinic situation that we were the same status as a Lpn and that we were paid about the same as one if we were certified medical assistants.

Just wanted to add that I had worked in a clinic one time as a phlebotoomisst I have heard physicians tell their patient that i was the needle nurse.

[sunnyjohn]

i'm not sure where the line is drawn as far as medical adminstration for MA's, but that were me I would call the state board of nursing and see if they can tell where to look......

They make about half of what RN's make in my state (NJ).

Surg Tech's only make about 60% of Scrub Nurses or only half of what a Surgical First Assistant would make. in my opinon, I guess they call themselves RN to make them feel better about the fact they couldn't make into nursing school.

I'm a Surgical Technologist, CST.

I've never called myself nurse and even made the distinction to patients on Versed on the table who started talking to me before the surgery. I wouldn't as I have not earned that title.

I would also never call myself a Medical Assistant/Medication Aide/ Certified HUC, EMT, etc, as I did not complete the requisite training to use those titles.

Folks should not use titles they didn't earn. Of course, in every situation you can't correct the patient, but it never hurts to educate someone on all the wonderful postions in allied health.

If we were all proud of the titlles we DID earn and did our part to educate the public by promoting our repective career paths, Nurses and the rest of us in allied health fields would not have such a hard time with the issues that seem to bog us down ($$$, professional advancement, etc...)

[PS- I know the poster I quoted was not launching firebombs. I just wanted to respond:lol2: ]

[smk1, LPN]

Evey PA and NP that works in a clinic with a doc who calls the assistants "nurses" should tell those docs to start referring to all of the mid levels as "Dr. ___", I mean after all, they are doing the "same" job... Some how I think they would have a problem with someone taking on their title without the education.

[Kelly_the_Great]

Now we know why nurses go through 'Burnout'

Wow, did I sound burnt out? :uhoh21:

Hmmm, well, like Sunnyjohn mentioned, this thread is actually about a year old - maybe I was havin' a bad day. Anyways, LOL, lookin' back @ my post, I should definitely proofread...pretty embarrassing all the misspellings! :imbar

And now here it is, a year later, and the problem still persists. RN/writer and others have mentioned something I find pretty interesting. The fact that so often, MAs are misrepresented by the physicians they work for.

I find this to be very ironic since doctors are soooo touchy about nurses receiving Doctorates of Nursing Practice and possibly misrepresenting themselves as "doctors". In fact, they've even gone as far as to issue a resolution (211) on the matter. The AACN fired back with a response of their own towards it, which addresses the very topic we're discussing :).

This is a portion of it; check it out: "Like the AMA, AACN recommends that action be taken against individuals who misrepresent themselves as physicians (or other health professionals) if they are not educated and licensed to assume that specific practice role. This concern extends to any unlicensed personnel who are referred to as “nurses” in physician’s offices and other settings."

:w00t: GO AACN!!!

[heygirl]

I am entering my first semester ADN RN starting 1-8-07, but I can say in my personal experience the MA's that assisted me during my hospital stay, seemed much more caring and competent then the RN's, who delegated all there responsiblities to the MA's, so my hat off to those who are over worked and under paid. I just hope that when I graduate as a RN I work just as hard as the MA's did for me, and pray that I don't let that title go to my head.