lying about clinical hours

[astrn]

I have an issue and maybe some of you can make light of it for me. I am a practicing FNP and have been asked to be a preceptor for someone whom I work with. He is in FNP school and thankfully I am not his preceptor at this time. When I ask how his hours are coming along he says just fine. He is in his 2nd clinical rotation and is working full time. All of the NP programs I know of require 16 hours of clinical hours per week. He takes one day off his full time job weekly to complete an 8 hour clinical rotation. He states he can see 16 patients a day and count each patient as 1 hour of clinical since it takes him 1 hour to work up the patient, which is complete BS. I know he cannot take off work to have a second day of clinical so he just reports the fake hours. So basically will have half of the clinical hours needed. He just finished his first rotation a few weeks ago and I thought he would have been caught but wasn't. He also says that other people in the program are doing the same thing, only 1 day a week and counting it as 2.

I and everyone I know that has completed a NP program has worked their butt off to complete their program and it just really irritates me that others just mend the program to their liking. Has anyone else experienced this?? It is really cheating in my opinion and I feel it takes integrity away from the profession and people are taking short cuts.

[Boomer MS, RN]

You can't teach integrity. Nursing at all levels should be based on ethical behavior in all aspects of practice, and doing the right thing whether you "get caught" or not.

"Character is what you do when no one is looking."

Author unknown

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Of course it's cheating. It's also unethical, irresponsible, and arrogant to think that one is so good that they don't need the amount of education that expert educators have decided is necessary to become competent.

It's really the responsibility of the FNP program to verify that clinical hours are being completed. If this misrepresentation of hours is so widespread, clearly the program isn't fulfilling their obligation to validate the hours submitted. Since you're not the preceptor for this student, nor an FNP instructor, I don't see what you could do about this (other than report the student to the school, but the time to do that would have been when you first learned it was happening). I would just make sure that if you are asked to precept any student in the future, you make it clear that you will only be signing off on the hours they are present.

No reason it can't be reported now.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Ha ha, just for giggles: Here is one of the emails from the beginning of his program from him to me. I have a bunch more too!:

"Good morning.

I did not get my assignment completed last night. It took me forever to read-then reread the differences. If you have time to look at this or add/subtract to it that would be awesome and save me time tonight. Let me know what you think. I found a like that provides each state requirements on my home computer but unfortunately did not send to my work computer.

Thank you"

Thank you for everyone's feedback. I wouldn't even know who to contact at the school. Can't complain to boss, doesn't have anything to do with it and don't want to bring anyone else into situation. Really wanted clarification on what everyone else would do or if they have ever encountered a similar situation. I don't want to get them kicked out of their program, want people to succeed but not like this I guess!

You are part of the problem, astrn. You know you are doing wrong but don't want to get the student in trouble, don't want to get fired, don't know who to contact at the school (you do know who to contact or could easily find out), and so on.

So your physician knows and doesn't want to get involved? He or she is, of course, already involved by allowing the student to be there at the practice and by throwing him off onto you.

Buck up, astrn. Either take the steps you know are right to take or quit complaining. If you are concerned about the profession as you say you are, do the right thing.

You could start by asking for clarification from the professor or Dean of the school as to what their expectations of the student are. That way you are not ratting out this snake of a student, you are asking for clarification. Be prepared for your doctor to be angry if he finds out. He's probably hoping to employ this guy once he graduates. At that point, this lazy worm could become your boss.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I would refuse to precept him then not worry about. He will not pass boards.

He will probably pass. And he could well become her boss.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

1) yes some programs allow 1 hour per patient in the first rotations. I have met other NP students from schools Where they are allowed that much time. I think the reason is that it is more work at first and they give them credit for logging into the system (that I cannot remember the name of).

2) You need to go find yourself some business and stay out of his and his preceptors. What right do you have to involve yourself or make comments about his school? He has a preceptor who is responsible and signed an agreement to precept him. You want be all Mrs kravitz about that reflects poorly on the profession as well.

canceled

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

People tweaked their clinical hours?? GASP! Say it isn't so? Next you will be telling me that urban legend of how a student placed a fake reference in a bibliography.

I tweaked my hours and everyone I know had some alternative math when calculating their actual hours. I do know one girl who bragged about doing extra hours, funny thing - she failed her last semester. Maybe she should have studied more. Realistically, if you are doing 800 or 850 (yeah we had too dang many hours) it makes little difference. If I cannot understand how to treat OM after seeing it 50 times 55 will magically make me a better provider. In my humble (or maybe no so humble) opinion you start learning once you enter practice.

You cheated on your hours? And you are admitting it on this public bulletin board?

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

100% call the school of nursing and ask to speak to the director of the particular NP program/tract that he is in. This is yet another reason NPs are looked down on in the medical community.

Do it anonymously. Don't say you're an NP or his coworker. You could be his girlfriend or buddy or just someone he was telling this to at a party, his neighbor, whoever.

What is the law for student NP clinical hours in your state?

[FNPME102916]

I am a chamberlain grad, FNP program.

Honestly it is now your responsibility to confront this person. If you don't want to go to his school you should at least tell him that if he wants to cut corners now that there is no way he will survive as a NP let alone pass boards.

So many people are quick to start the NP journey without really realizing all of the work and liabilities along with it. These online programs make it so easy to complex which is unfortunate for the people who don't have it in them or understand what it truly means to be a nurse practitioner. It is also unfortunate because it makes those of us who dreamed of being a NP since undergrad and worked so hard to get there, look bad if we went to that program as well.

give me this persons info I will tell him myself.

[foggnm]

God grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and the wisdom to know the difference.

[RNOTODAY, BSN, RN]

I also feel, that he is so blatantly comfortable begging constantly for her to do his homework, that she's actually DONE it before.... know what I mean?

[Ben_Dover]

I also feel, that he is so blatantly comfortable begging constantly for her to do his homework, that she's actually DONE it before.... know what I mean?

That's what I'm saying. Something is just not adding up.

I feel as though the OP and this student, initially, were getting along so well but then had some type of disagreement along the way.

Obviously a speculation. But highly probable!?

[missdeevah, NP]

So what did you end up doing, OP?