lying about clinical hours

[astrn]

I have an issue and maybe some of you can make light of it for me. I am a practicing FNP and have been asked to be a preceptor for someone whom I work with. He is in FNP school and thankfully I am not his preceptor at this time. When I ask how his hours are coming along he says just fine. He is in his 2nd clinical rotation and is working full time. All of the NP programs I know of require 16 hours of clinical hours per week. He takes one day off his full time job weekly to complete an 8 hour clinical rotation. He states he can see 16 patients a day and count each patient as 1 hour of clinical since it takes him 1 hour to work up the patient, which is complete BS. I know he cannot take off work to have a second day of clinical so he just reports the fake hours. So basically will have half of the clinical hours needed. He just finished his first rotation a few weeks ago and I thought he would have been caught but wasn't. He also says that other people in the program are doing the same thing, only 1 day a week and counting it as 2.

I and everyone I know that has completed a NP program has worked their butt off to complete their program and it just really irritates me that others just mend the program to their liking. Has anyone else experienced this?? It is really cheating in my opinion and I feel it takes integrity away from the profession and people are taking short cuts.

[missdeevah, NP]

So what did you end up doing, OP?

[Rnis, BSN, DNP, APRN, NP]

I think using the term "tweaking" hours is a stretch in this case. if they are truly adding 8-9 hours weekly of clinical time to their log that they did not do. I also think that it is frustrating to read from instructors on this post that it is purely the responsibility of the preceptor to approve these hours. That is an awkward place to put an someone doing nursing education a free HUGE favor that slows down their practice. This is why I am hesitant to start taking students. When I do, I will likely stick to the program I graduated from since I know there is moderate oversight from their instructors

[LadysSolo]

"Tweaking" is working 7 hours and 50 min and calling in "8 hours." Lying is adding multiple hours to your actual clinical time.

[chiromed0]

Hmmm...well, I did about 1000+ hours in my program that required 700hrs b/c I had to re-do a semester b/c I was 0.5 pt short of my semester grade requirement. So part of me say's "heck yeah this dude or dudet needs to be legit and do their hours!" and the other part of me says these programs who teach evidence based medicine don't practice evidence based academics. The program requirements are 500 hours min and they tack on arbitrary hours for clinicals that vary from 500-1000. So the only way to balance all these different program requirements to the same standard are the board exams. If this person passes then they are assumed to be the same equivalent as someone who diligently performed every requirement to the letter. I know many others who went through my program that probably (nobody will ever know) fudged their hours...particularly b/c some of their preceptors were also business associates (aka employees) and signed off on whatever hours they put. I guess to answer this thread I would say unless you have concrete evidence I don't know if you should complicate your own life with this person's nonsense by turning them in or complaining to the board. Certainly, I'd suggest that you give them the boot in terms of helping them with their school work-I've never heard of such. Anyway, I see your point and understand the frustration.

[Ben_Dover]

So what did you end up doing, OP?

Perhaps, back in doing his homework for him?!?

Joke

[JellyDonut]

It may be true that a lot of learning is done in practice, but it is not ok to fudge your hours. It's lying, pure and simple. You are testifying to your school, your preceptor, the BON, and the licensing agency that you have done the minimum hours required by your program. What else will you lie about?

My actions were approved by my preceptor who signed off it and following clarification from my instructor. Tweaking the patient time to match the hours spent in the clinical site. If I spent 9 hours on site my totals were to match my time minus lunch. So, 20 patients scheduled were divided into that time. If only 10 showed that amount was divided between the patients. That is the tweak. There is still time looking up meds, reviewing histories, charting in clinic and entering information in typhoon. I did not claim I went to the clinic 3 days a week when I was actually there 1.

A classmate had a horrible assignment where her provider would only have 4 patients some days. These were hour consults. She claimed the hour plus her time physically in the clinic.

[Double-Helix, BSN, RN]

My actions were approved by my preceptor who signed off it and following clarification from my instructor. Tweaking the patient time to match the hours spent in the clinical site. If I spent 9 hours on site my totals were to match my time minus lunch. So, 20 patients scheduled were divided into that time. If only 10 showed that amount was divided between the patients. That is the tweak. There is still time looking up meds, reviewing histories, charting in clinic and entering information in typhoon. I did not claim I went to the clinic 3 days a week when I was actually there 1.

A classmate had a horrible assignment where her provider would only have 4 patients some days. These were hour consults. She claimed the hour plus her time physically in the clinic.

The number of patients you see has nothing to do with the amount of clinical hours you are claiming. If you work 9 hours and see 18 patients, you've worked 9 hours but spent 30 minutes with each patient. If you work 9 hours and see 9 patients, you've worked 9 hours and spent 1 hour with each patient. Regardless of how many patients you see, you've only completed 9 clinical hours at the end of the day.

[WKShadowNP, DNP, APRN]

The number of patients you see has nothing to do with the amount of clinical hours you are claiming. If you work 9 hours and see 18 patients, you've worked 9 hours but spent 30 minutes with each patient. If you work 9 hours and see 9 patients, you've worked 9 hours and spent 1 hour with each patient. Regardless of how many patients you see, you've only completed 9 clinical hours at the end of the day.

Precisely. I had both a patient quantity requirement and hourly requirement. I always saw more than needed but sometimes struggled for the hours required .

[Skippingtowork]

"Character is what you do when no one is looking."

Author unknown

i believe it's John Wooden. I use this quote a lot. Another one is:

"A good name is better to be chosen than many riches." Proverbs 22:1

[OllieW, DNP, PhD, NP]

I am curious now. Is it only face to face time that counts as clinical time, time in the facility or time spent preparing? We were allowed to count grand rounds and several lectures as part of our clinical hours. Grand rounds were automatic, but the lectures had to be submitted prior for approval but they never denied any request. I had a friend from another program who said she counted clinical lab time - where they would practice skills and interview techniques.

[WKShadowNP, DNP, APRN]

My understanding is that requirements are school specific. I could not count an NP event for which I would have lobbied at the state Capitol. Direct patient care hours only.

[Skippingtowork]

I am curious now. Is it only face to face time that counts as clinical time, time in the facility or time spent preparing? We were allowed to count grand rounds and several lectures as part of our clinical hours. Grand rounds were automatic, but the lectures had to be submitted prior for approval but they never denied any request. I had a friend from another program who said she counted clinical lab time - where they would practice skills and interview techniques.

Depends on the school (to some point). Some people are allowed to go to a professional conference and count a limited number of hours towards clinical time. Some programs are so strict that if you are family practice you can't go to the hospital to even observe. Lots of learning lost there. There are lots of ways to enhance learning that are not considered by some schools.