LPN'S Supervising RNs'? How would you feel?

[cowgirl4u]

I would like to start out by saying that I do respect LPN's and I am in favor of advancing in everyones careers. I am an RN on a PCU. Our hosp changed the "directors" title to Clinical Care Coordinator. Now, our floor with mostly RN's are under the direction of a LPN whom reports to the director of acute care/pcu. Let me explain further, we had seperate directors at one time, but now have one director. We are in the basement of the hospital and our director in upstairs on the acute floor. However, our newly hired clinical care coordinator is in an office with us downstairs. I am having a very difficult time in falling under this type of leadership umbrella. I also think its a dif positon for the LPN to be in too. Any thoughts?

[Jules A, MSN]

I have a similar story. I worked in an ICU (as a CNA) and could not figure out why the majority of the RN's talked poorly about the nurse manager. Basically it seemed like none of them had any respect for her. One day I finally asked why the nurses seemed to dislike her so much. I was told it was b/c she wasn't even a nurse...she was a Respiratory Tech!

I have no idea how that situation ever came about as the Nurse Manager (RT) was the one who hired me, but being just a CNA I wondered how that could have been legeal. She was finally replaced with an RN,BSN, I beleive she went back to working as an RT.

Since you didn't write about what an incompetent manager she was I'm assuming her lack of an "acceptable" degree was the reason they resented her? Sad. While I do appreciate the hard work and scope of information learned with an advanced degree I don't think that it automatically makes someone more qualified as a manager. My feelings are that the education we receive is a mere foundation and most of the real stuff comes from being on the job.

[banditrn]

Yes, education is important - up to a point. After that, experience takes over. I don't care as much about the # of letters after a name as I do about a nurse's proficiency in what they are doing.

[paigeRN1962]

Yes, education is important - up to a point. After that, experience takes over. I don't care as much about the # of letters after a name as I do about a nurse's proficiency in what they are doing.

I absolutely agree that competancy and proficiency is something you can't put a price on nor do RN's have a corner on the market. But there are policies and laws we must as RN's or LPN's follow. I once worked at a hospital who demoted all the nurse managers to staff nurses who were not BSN educated....some of these were long-term employees, with over 20 years of experience and very seasoned. In their place, because of policy, new managers were hired with the right initials after their names but hardly comparable in their hands-on experience. I am an ADN nurse, now in my 40's and seeing myself get passed over for promotion in spite of 15 years of experience in the OR as well as an additional 9 years prior to that as a surgical tech.

This past year I had to answer to a DON superviser who had no surgical experience but got hired over other, more qualified applicants because she was friends with the VP of Clinical Operations. Within 3 months, after making everyone's life miserable, she resigned, realizing she was over her head. Her resume came across my desk where I am now employed and I was appalled at the blatant lies she was telling about her extensive surgical nursing experience....we put it in the circular file.

Now, again, I find myself with a supervisor who is also an ADN, barely 3 years out of school, no other nursing experience in the OR except the present job where she is now doing conscious sedation and some circulating. Unfortunately she is very intimidated by my coworker and me as we both have extensive OR and nursing experience. My co-worker and I cannot believe that we are being supervised by someone who is not even aware that she doesn't know what she doesn't know. Instead of allowing us to work as a team, this supervisor is not interested in letting us all learn from the other. Instead she is sabotaging our work, taking credit for what we do, telling the physicians that the other nurse is "a trouble-maker", and basically creating as much drama as possible to force us to resign. She has already offered to write us both a glowing letter of recommendation. The other nurse and I have got her number and are not allowing her to get away with this and have made the physician aware of what he has been suspecting for a long time.....that she is poisoning the staff and behind all the turn-over. He has assured us he will take care of the problem. I am waiting to return to work this week and find out how that went.

My feeling is that experienced or not, an LPN cannot legally supervise an RN and there are good reasons for this in the clinical setting. However, as we all know, corners are being cut everywhere in the healthcare industry and I would bet that it's part of the reason some places are allowing this to happen.

[Pilotboy]

I'd quit!

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

Why?

I'd quit!

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I'd quit!

What's your point? (yawning)

[stinkerbelle]

As an LPN that idea may work for you. However, in today's litiginous society it isn't only the MD who gets creamed. More and more the RN is named specifically named. I don't know how it works in your state, but in some states the MD is responaible for the MA and the LPN. If there is no RN on duty the MD would be responsible for the LPN , the MA, the CNA, etc. However, I don't think anyone other than the MD could be sued. If there is an RN on duty she can be named in the suit personally. This is not true for the LPN or certificate personnel.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

However, in today's litiginous society it isn't only the MD who gets creamed.

It's litigious.

If there is an RN on duty she can be named in the suit personally. This is not true for the LPN or certificate personnel.

LPNs can be sued. LPNs have been sued previously.

It would be wondrous if you had factual information. I'm yawning.

[sqky]

ok..I am a LPN. I was put in the position of 'house supervisor' while working at a LTN facility several years ago. The RN whom I surpervised said nothing about the fact I was 'in charge' of the 94 bed facility while working with me. She was not allowed to carry narc keys, she could only give narcs in my presence, and was not allowed in the med room without me being there. Those were not my rules but the DON. I respected her knowledge and experience, she respected mine.

A year or so went by, she completed her rehab and went to work for a local hospital. Not knowing she was working there, I applied for and was hired as a staff nurse. Much to my surprise, my first night at work she was my charge nurse. We worked together for 5 years before she found a different job she liked more.

Before she left she thanked me for the understanding and support I had shown her when she was getting back into nursing. She said many of her fellow RN's would treat her like she had the plague the first year back in nursing and she was ready to give nursing up.

She said what changed her mind was the way I accepted she had messed up, yet helped her to regain her self respect, gain respect of co-workers, and provided a positive role model for her.

Now, what is more important, having someone who does a supervisory job well and all workers give their 110% while at work........... or someone with all the letters after their name, work is chaotic, and staff relations are down in the dump and patient care does not get done?

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

Of course LVN's can be sued and the MD's do not govern our practice (in Texas anyway). Now this is not true for MA's they must work under the MD. It does not matter If I work under, with or for a RN if I screw up my rear is in the red.

As an LPN that idea may work for you. However, in today's litiginous society it isn't only the MD who gets creamed. More and more the RN is named specifically named. I don't know how it works in your state, but in some states the MD is responaible for the MA and the LPN. If there is no RN on duty the MD would be responsible for the LPN , the MA, the CNA, etc. However, I don't think anyone other than the MD could be sued. If there is an RN on duty she can be named in the suit personally. This is not true for the LPN or certificate personnel.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Of course LVN's can be sued and the MD's do not govern our practice (in Texas anyway). Now this is not true for MA's they must work under the MD. It does not matter If I work under, with or for a RN if I screw up my rear is in the red.

It's the same in Florida. Nurses are self-governed, not governed by MDs. Although here LPNs are supervised by RNs, one rarely hears of an RN loosing their license over what an LPN does, the LPN is accountable for their own scope of practice,(which btw does not included supervising RNs), and can get burned at the stake at the BON or a court of law all by themselves.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I'd quit!

Thought the question was how would you feel, not what would you do.