i don't want my post to be the venue for an LPN-RN debate...this is just my opinion about the topic...
i understand that not EVERYBODY want to be an RN and that NOT everyone stays as an LPN...different situations calls for a different approach...we as nurses should be bonded and not debate amongst ourselves of who has the best career...it's hard enough explaining to the lay person what we do and how important we are and not "just nurses"...that we don't need to badmouth each other...
I don't think 'some of you' read the part where I stated that these were MY opinions............I don't have a 'thing' against RN's.......I am one, but I also started out as a LPN, where 'I' believe I learned most of my skills. Difference?? Yes.... I have a ADN and thinking about working on my BS, but why? Oh right, I'm not really a nurse yet?? Why such a blasted 'get all bent out of shape' with this subject?? We ALL provide a sacred service to others. We are ALL needed in this vast area of nursing. Do you think that if your a ER nurse (been there, done that) that you are better than the med-surg nurse? Or if you work in a hospital your better than the nurse dedicated to long term care or the phy. office??
I work in a MAJOR hospital for a MAJOR healthcare corp. We hire LPN's because we KNOW that they are a value to our system. I just think that they should get the respect.....from us.....they deserve and the pay they deserve.
You who remain on that somewhat lonely pedistal of 'holier than thou' can stay there..........
Dr. Linda Aiken studied the effect of nurse educational preparation on the death rate of post surgical patients. Aiken found out that surgical patients have a "substantial survival advantage" if treated in hospitals with a higher proportion of nurses educated at the baccalaureate level or higher. The study confirmed that the educational backgrounds of hospital RNs is indeed a predictor of patient mortality, apart from factors such as nurse staffing and experience. Some argue that experience is more important than education in nursing practice. Experience is certainly important for mastering tasks and becoming secure and comfortable in practice. Experience, however, is not a substitute for education. Rather, education is the foundation on which experience builds. Aiken, L.H., Clarke, S.P., Cheung, R.B., Sloane, D.M., & Silber, J.H. (2003, September 24). Educational levels of hospital nurses and surgical patient mortality. JAMA, 290, 1617-1623. jama.ama.assn.org/cgi/
Dr. Linda Aiken studied the effect of nurse educational preparation on the death rate of post surgical patients. Aiken found out that surgical patients have a "substantial survival advantage" if treated in hospitals with a higher proportion of nurses educated at the baccalaureate level or higher. The study confirmed that the educational backgrounds of hospital RNs is indeed a predictor of patient mortality, apart from factors such as nurse staffing and experience. Some argue that experience is more important than education in nursing practice. Experience is certainly important for mastering tasks and becoming secure and comfortable in practice. Experience, however, is not a substitute for education. Rather, education is the foundation on which experience builds. Aiken, L.H., Clarke, S.P., Cheung, R.B., Sloane, D.M., & Silber, J.H. (2003, September 24). Educational levels of hospital nurses and surgical patient mortality. JAMA, 290, 1617-1623. jama.ama.assn.org/cgi/
Before wholeheartedly putting forth this study you need to research it a little more. It has been pretty well discredited.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Dr. Linda Aiken studied the effect of nurse educational preparation on the death rate of post surgical patients. Aiken found out that surgical patients have a "substantial survival advantage" if treated in hospitals with a higher proportion of nurses educated at the baccalaureate level or higher. The study confirmed that the educational backgrounds of hospital RNs is indeed a predictor of patient mortality, apart from factors such as nurse staffing and experience. Some argue that experience is more important than education in nursing practice. Experience is certainly important for mastering tasks and becoming secure and comfortable in practice. Experience, however, is not a substitute for education. Rather, education is the foundation on which experience builds. Aiken, L.H., Clarke, S.P., Cheung, R.B., Sloane, D.M., & Silber, J.H. (2003, September 24). Educational levels of hospital nurses and surgical patient mortality. JAMA, 290, 1617-1623. jama.ama.assn.org/cgi/
I was waiting for this one to crop up again. It always seems to now and again....... No one says experience is a substitute for education, but you need to look at WHO is doing these studies and what MAY motivate them, to get the whole picture. There are political motivators, too; not all are pure.
Before the paper was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (one of the nation's leading scientific journals) it received detailed scientific review and scrutiny. Read it for your self to determine its scientific merit and to satisfy your self that it's not critical of nurses in any way. It provides evidence that nurses are very important to good patient outcomes.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I read it already. How many ADN/Diploma educators were involved in the work of this study? It was accomplished and conclusions drawn by UNIVERSITY educators and not coincidentally, favored BSN education over all other points of entry to the RN career. Sorry, I just do not buy into it. I see RN's on the floor everyday. Even if I were not to know about them, I would NOT know who holds what degree nor would I care. But I do know my coworkers and how they perform, and having been there 5 years, I pretty much know who holds what degree of education.
I do know BSN's who provide dangerously lousy and imcompetent care and ADN's running circles around them, and yes, it goes vice versa. Yes, this is anecdotal, but my eyes and ears tell me a lot, too.
I just think there is political motivation behind this study, really. t
Also, this study was also discussed in Nursing magazine, both PRO and CON, so I am aware of what it was about and the conclusions I draw are based on what I read and what I see in practice each day I work.
I was waiting for this one to crop up again. It always seems to now and again....... No one says experience is a substitute for education, but you need to look at WHO is doing these studies and what MAY motivate them, to get the whole picture. There are political motivators, too; not all are pure.
I thought this one would pop up in the old BSN v ADN argument. I read a very detailed analysis of this study. Seems they made some very statistically invalid claims.
I thought this one would pop up in the old BSN v ADN argument. I read a very detailed analysis of this study. Seems they made some very statistically invalid claims.
Well, how about sharing the URL or the source with us? I'd like to read it.
Dr. Linda Aiken studied the effect of nurse educational preparation on the death rate of post surgical patients. Aiken found out that surgical patients have a "substantial survival advantage" if treated in hospitals with a higher proportion of nurses educated at the baccalaureate level or higher. The study confirmed that the educational backgrounds of hospital RNs is indeed a predictor of patient mortality, apart from factors such as nurse staffing and experience.
Sorry, but everytime someone cites that study it really gets under my skin. Did that study take into account the physicians' education/experience, size of hospital, average age/acuity of patient, patient load, staffing levels? I'm pretty sure it didn't.
There's room for everyone, that's the beauty of nursing. Everyone deserves respect for what they do.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
Originally Posted by Plato
LPNs are not professional nurses. They have the word "nurse" in their title, but so does a CNA. An LPN is an assistant to the RN. A CNA, is also an assistant to the RN. The LPN is given technical tasks like dressing changes and med administration, and the CNA is given rudimentary tasks like ADLs and VS.I won't even argue this one. If someone wants to dress up like a nurse andpretend, that's fine with me. But a nurse is a Registered Nurse. >QUOTE
Quote-TIONA
Excuse me, I am a newly licensed LVN. In clinical I passed meds, inserted f/c, supra-pubic caths, ng tubes, wound care, head to toe assessments, nursing diagnoses, nursing process, charting, communication with physicians and families.... I had clinicals in OB/GYN, postpartum, pediatrics, urology etc, etc, etc. I went to care plan meetings on behalf of my patients etc. etc. I am a WELL EDUCATED LVN! I'm pround to be an LVN. My practice act states specifically that I AM a "professional nurse". Read it. It is people like you that causes strife and combat within this field and takes the focus off of GOOD patient care. Petty.>QUOTE Tiona,honey don't waste your time...search Plato's other posts and you'll see that they have resulted in her (or him )being banned....A good LPN knows her scope of practice and is comfortable with her skills and the opinions of someone like this person can not impact on that....Some RN's like Plato really have no idea WHAT our training entails or what our responsibilities are in some settings.-or how much autonomy we often have.And the ANA does not recognize us as professional nurses because they don't want us taking jobs away from RN's..just as they are figthing against the use of UAP's....if only our LPN organizations were as actively fighting for us...
NannaNurse
266 Posts
I don't think 'some of you' read the part where I stated that these were MY opinions............I don't have a 'thing' against RN's.......I am one, but I also started out as a LPN, where 'I' believe I learned most of my skills. Difference?? Yes.... I have a ADN and thinking about working on my BS, but why? Oh right, I'm not really a nurse yet?? Why such a blasted 'get all bent out of shape' with this subject?? We ALL provide a sacred service to others. We are ALL needed in this vast area of nursing. Do you think that if your a ER nurse (been there, done that) that you are better than the med-surg nurse? Or if you work in a hospital your better than the nurse dedicated to long term care or the phy. office??
I work in a MAJOR hospital for a MAJOR healthcare corp. We hire LPN's because we KNOW that they are a value to our system. I just think that they should get the respect.....from us.....they deserve and the pay they deserve.
You who remain on that somewhat lonely pedistal of 'holier than thou' can stay there..........