LIES About LPN's and LVN's

I am a nurse who started out in this profession with little knowledge about how complex nursing is, despite all that I have learned in nursing school. There is so much to learn about nursing that school cannot teach. One important lesson that I learned is not to believe everything that I read or hear. I have since enlightened myself on the lies about the profession of LPN'S and LVN's that I intend to raise awareness about to others who read this article. Nurses LPN/LVN Article

The exact definition of an LPN/LVN varies by state, employer and organization. According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, a Licensed Practical Nurse or Licensed Vocational Nurse provides basic nursing care. They work under the direction of RN's and Doctors.1 Many websites and educational institutions minimize the role of LPN's and LVN's. I am not certain if this is done in an effort to promote the attainment of a college degree or if the representatives from those establishments have been misinformed about the profession. I have found opposing data on these misconceptions and I am raising awareness about it.

In an article from nursinglicensure.org entitled “LPN's Vs. RN's”, there are several misconceptions present. I read "The role of an LPN is, as the name suggests, practical."2 This is false because I have learned that working as an LPN/LVN comprises basic nursing care and advanced nursing care depending on one's education level, experience and competency.

I graduated from nursing school initially seeking to become a Registered Nurse since I did not know about the option to become an LPN/LVN. When I did not pass my NCLEX the first time, I became discouraged and thought that perhaps I should take a break from trying to become a nurse. I still wanted to work in the healthcare profession so I decided to become a caregiver.

While seeking employment as a caregiver, I encountered an LPN with an Associate’s Degree in Nursing who was the charge nurse in her own office at the homecare company that I applied for. This is when I first learned that an "LPN/LVN" is a nurse. Even though I met a charge nurse, I decided to re-take my NCLEX with the misconception that LPN's/LVN's are inferior to RN's. I was so eager to be a nurse that I held on to this misconception and did not care.

Perhaps the definitions of LPN's/LVN's that I read in the past have added to my confusion. The description from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics and other websites are very misleading since they mention that LPN's are supervised by Registered Nurses and Doctors.1,3 This is true, but so too are RN's who are not supervisors. Staff RN's on different units of hospitals are supervised by their charge nurse who is an RN or a Doctor.

It seems peculiar to me that when looking up the definition of an RN, there is no mention of who they are supervised by. I have since discovered that an LPN/LVN is not an inferior nurse. I think that the lies going around about these types of nurses exist because many LPN schools graduate their students without a college degree. This does not necessarily mean that LPN's/LVN's are lower in status because similarly, RN's may graduate without a college degree, being awarded a diploma from an approved nursing program.2

The length of time that nursing students are educated may be the same for RN's and LPN's too. LPN's and LVN's are not menial or "simple" because they may supervise in a variety of settings and are not limited to supervising unlicensed assistive personnel. The LPN who is a charge nurse requires job expertise that is far from basic nursing care.

The article implied that LPN's do not work in hospital settings very often. The idea of fewer job opportunities for LPN's is misleading since nationwide, there are a lot less Licensed Practical Nurses compared to Registered Nurses. If people tend to get their RN license instead of becoming an LPN, it is only logical that you will see smaller statistical data for the job market of LPN's. This is similar to saying that the availability of meatless pasta for dinner at restaurants is limited if you are a vegetarian. This is a misconception since most people are not vegetarians, so the option for it on menu's nationwide is limited if one were to create statistics on it. The option to order meatless pasta is available in restaurants nationwide if requested, just like the opportunities to work as an LPN/LVN nationwide.

I did a job search for random hospitals throughout the USA and saw that LPN's and LVN's are commonly hired in hospitals. In California, I saw several openings for LPN's/LVN's on the Colusa Medical Center web site.4 Similarly in Ohio, I saw some job openings at the Akron Children's Hospital.5 As I continued to read the article, it stated "In hospitals, LPN duties, as well as advancement opportunities, are more limited.

You’ll find LPNs taking vitals and sometimes administering medications...They won’t have as many options for specialization."3 This too is false because LPN's who are hired in hospitals can become certified to specialize in many areas. Some specialties in pediatrics include Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS), Neonatal Advanced Life Support (NALS) and Pediatric Emergency Assessment and Stabilization (PEARS).6

LPN's can become certified in other specialties through alternate routes from RN's.6 Some specialties outside of pediatrics that I found especially interesting and noteworthy are certifications as case managers, transplant coordinators and they can even work in surgery with certification as Registered Cardiovascular Invasive Specialists (RCIS).7 If the scope of practice of LPN's were so limited, the aforementioned specialties would not be available.

I believe that the additional education and training required for LPN's to obtain specialty certification prepares nurses for advanced skilled care performance better than training from nursing school. I feel this way because now that I am a licensed nurse who works in the field, I see that the brief timespan covering each skill is not enough to prepare nurses for performance on actual patients.

I graduated with my Bachelor of Science degree in Nursing, which was a 4-year curriculum for full-time students. A lot of information was covered during that time. It is unreasonable to expect someone to remember the details of skills that he or she learned months or even years ago. If I am performing wound care on a patient and I learned this skill over a year ago, I cannot afford to make a mistake if I forget a step. This is where certification is very useful since it reinforces the skills that were learned in nursing school with updated information and it ensures competency for the procedure.

Registered Nurses are not required to be certified for most procedures. If I did not decide to take my LPN boards and decided to take the RN route instead, I would be expected to memorize all of the skills that I learned from my 4-year long nursing school curriculum. This is very risky and I would not know how to go about getting additional training.

In conclusion, I want to commend Registered Nurses on their achievements and hard work as healthcare professionals. I do not intend to discredit the professionalism of Registered Nurses. I am merely revealing the prevarications that exist about the profession of LPN's that I too was misled by. It is most important to remember that every health care professional is vital and plays a critical role in the well-being of patients. It is prudent to remain cautious about misleading information pertaining to the profession of LPN's/LVN's and all professions.

I think the basic premise of the article (as evidenced by the title) is wrong.

Who are all of these liars?

Don't you think it's slightly more likely that due to a variety of factors there is at least some amount of misinformation floating around (both "in favor" of LPN and "against" LPN)? And that people tend to speak of what they (think they) know as if it were fact? Even the OP with this long diatribe doesn't have all the facts right - but I don't have any reason to think s/he is a liar.

Lying means knowing that something is incorrect and presenting it as the truth anyway.

To speak of others' ignorance and misinformation as "lies" when there is no evidence of such is to proclaim an enemy that likely doesn't exist.

Maybe it would be better to just present factual information the best you can when the opportunity arises and let the rest go...

Sorry if I missed this in your post, but did you obtain a BSN, but then never get licensed as an RN? If so, why is that?

I have learned a TON from LVNs and have worked with some exceptional LVNs.

I HIGHLY recommend anyone thinking of becoming an LVN to really do research about job/salary prospects. If you, as an LVN, make more $ than an RN, that is really the exception.

In my region, there are no LVNs in acute care. They were phased out years ago. Most LVNs will work in clinics or LTC (I did too, and loved it), and RNs make almost double what LVNs make. It is unfair to paint an unrealistic picture of job opportunities or salaries for LVNs, some of whom spend tons of money on private colleges.

The scope of practice of LVNs and RNs have some big differences that the original post does not explain...and, so what? My scope of practice as an RN is narrower than that of a NP. There is a hierarchy, and everyone has an important role in the continuum of care. There really is not a reason to be defensive about it.

I too found this article to be disjointed and difficult to follow. While I feel there are some valid points made by the OP, I also feel compelled to point out two things that I felt were inaccurate or misleading First, the supervision aspect of nursing. Yes, RNs sometimes work under the auspice (or collaboratively) with a physician, or are accountable to a nurse supervisor-i.e charge nurse, nurse manager, director of nursing.... However, RNs practice within the guidelines set forth by their respective state's Nurse Practice Act and there work is not typically overseen "supervised" on a minute-to-minute basis. Your idea of supervision sounds more akin to a production worker on an assembly line.

Second, you seem really hung up on the 'better than', 'inferior to' aspect of the RN, LPN/LVN. Surely you are aware many that many RNs, have equal admiration and respect for RNs, LPNs/LVNs, CNAs, Medical Assistants and recognize their important contributions to patient care. With that being said, the reality is that RNs have additional responsibilities conferred to them by these same Nurse Practice Acts and as such, their salaries are typically higher than LPNs/LVNs. It has also been my experience that acute care hospitals have either enacted a moratorium or curtailed their hiring of LPNs/LVNs-perhaps others experiences will be different but this has been my observation.

If you want to be disheartened, go read the Yahoo! comments section on the story about the nurse who impregnated the nursing home resident. It’s unbelievable how many commentators are “correcting” the article by saying the culprit is “a LPN, not a nurse”.

Specializes in Dialysis.
1 minute ago, BrandonLPN said:

If you want to be disheartened, go read the Yahoo! comments section on the story about the nurse who impregnated the nursing home resident. It’s unbelievable how many commentators are “correcting” the article by saying the culprit is “a LPN, not a nurse”.

My well informed (cough, cough) sister says LPNs and ADNs aren’t nurses. Only BSNs and above. No, she’s not a nurse, just a garden variety know it all idiot

I am a little confused by your article.

You appear to have written from both sides of your argument but at the same time focus only on the LPN/LVN side. And it is hard to follow as it appears you jump from idea to idea-but I feel this is more of the argument stand point. LPN/LVN versus RN or both...it's hard to see which side you're writing from.

You list several facts you found but I am going to offer some counter facts.

On 1/24/2019 at 2:03 PM, Divine-LPN,BSN said:

The exact definition of an LPN/LVN varies by state, employer and organization.

The reason for this is the exact same as a RN. The LPN/LVN is a licensed healthcare profession. This means that certain laws govern both of us. And laws vary from state to state. There is the National Council of State Boards of Nursing (NCSBN) who over see these laws but each state has their own State Board of Nursing (BON) and the Nurse Practice Act which we practice under. That you practice under. And the same thing goes for doctors, physical therapists, occupational therapists, etc. Every healthcare professional has their own governing body (as I understand it). It's complicated but that's the way it works. Which is why it is so hard to find an 'exact definition' of an LPN/LVN. Same goes for the definition of a RN.

Now the article you mentioned, I looked it up. "The role of an LPN is, as the name suggests, practical. LPNs are expected to report even minor changes in patient care to a registered nurse or other medical professional. As for what they actually do on the job, often it’s a lot!" In the full context, the author is not degrading LPN's at all. In fact, the article is just comparing the two roles and not pitting them against each other. Having worked with many LPN's, and learned from them as well, I know this is a fact. Fun fact, I learned my IV skills from a LPN and now I'm the go to IV sticker on my floor!!!

Alright, now lets tackle on who supervises who. Again, this varies state by state and facility. Most of the time, RN's will be supervised by other RN's. This is correct. There is more to this however. There is a chain of command. Let's use my facility, a hospital, as an example. On my floor, there are floor nurses. We are 'supervised' by a charge nurse. However, this charge nurse has the same amount of education that we do. BSN, ADN, and diploma (three year degree). The charge nurse role is to support us, offer assistance when needed, round with providers and case managers, and numerous other things. It is a leadership role. Any floor nurse with leadership skills and enough floor experience can be charge nurse. Above us and charge is the nurse manager. This position is held by a MSN. And it is a manager role. Exactly like it sounds. Above her is a divisional nurse manager. And it goes all the way to the top to CNO and CEO.

Despite what your article says, doctors do not supervise us. They work beside us. This isn't to say this isn't the case in other offices or hospitals. But from my personnel experience and to give you an example. But in general, going back to laws, they do not supervise us as they have their own governing body that supervises them and their own supervisors.

On 1/24/2019 at 2:03 PM, Divine-LPN,BSN said:

You’ll find LPNs taking vitals and sometimes administering medications...They won’t have as many options for specialization."3 This too is false because LPN's who are hired in hospitals can become certified to specialize in many areas. Some specialties in pediatrics include Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS), Neonatal Advanced Life Support (NALS) and Pediatric Emergency Assessment and Stabilization (PEARS)

This. These are not specializations but certifications. Yes, you can be a LPN/LVN working on a cardiac floor or on a pediatric floor but you would get these as certifications. ACLS, PALS, NALS, and PEARS means you are able to do emergent skills such as intubation or push emergent drugs above the basic skills of CPR (BLS) for each specialized population. And even then, I am tempted to say these vary state by state and facility. And then there are specialization certifications such as CCRN, CMSRN, CDN, CWORN, and many more. These are classes that you have to have so many years experience and have to prove your license. Facilities will usually offer a course for these. But be careful about throwing around the term "specialization" or "certification" as people study very hard for these and are proud to obtain them. They're essentially like taking boards all over again.

On 1/24/2019 at 2:03 PM, Divine-LPN,BSN said:

I graduated with my Bachelor of Science degree in Nursing, which was a 4-year curriculum for full-time students. A lot of information was covered during that time. It is unreasonable to expect someone to remember the details of skills that he or she learned months or even years ago. If I am performing wound care on a patient and I learned this skill over a year ago, I cannot afford to make a mistake if I forget a step. This is where certification is very useful since it reinforces the skills that were learned in nursing school with updated information and it ensures competency for the procedure.

Registered Nurses are not required to be certified for most procedures. If I did not decide to take my LPN boards and decided to take the RN route instead, I would be expected to memorize all of the skills that I learned from my 4-year long nursing school curriculum. This is very risky and I would not know how to go about getting additional training.

I really don't know what you are saying here. I am genuinely confused. I obtained my BSN several years ago and use the skills I learned in clinical every day. Yes, it is true we do not have to be certified for most, if any, procedures. Do I have to be certified to insert an IV? Change a dressing? Switch out a colostomy bag? Insert a catheter? Calculate a rate for a cardiac or insulin drip? No. But if I need help I can call on a nurse who has pursued further education in those skills for help on guidance on how to do so. And then continue with their recommendations.

I would also like to add that you mentioned that you didn't know if there was a push towards degrees which is leading towards to misrepresentation of LPNs/LVNs. In short-kind of. I vaguely remember in undergrad learning about why the LPN came about. And it was due the true nursing shortage many, many years ago- I believe during WW1 to WW2. There was a shortage of nurses due to the war and nursing programs created 'quick' programs to fill the need. The LPN/LVN was created to fill in the gap as well as the diploma degree. Both of these are being phased out as well as the ADN degree as the push for the BSN degree and 'evidenced based' programs become the norm.

In conclusion, I commend my LPN/LVN colleagues. As I said, I learned my IV skills from a LPN and I'm the go to person for IV sticks now. Easy and little old lady with CHF skin hard. I agree there is a lot of confusion on the role of LPNs/LVNs but I believe this is solely due to fact that there aren't that many around any more. In my facility, they are required to work on obtaining their BSN RN to continue working there. There is also a lot of confusion on what they can and can't do and this has to do with the various state laws that surround both RN's and LPNs/LVNs. I recommend that both RNs and LPNs/LVNs look at their state legislature to figure out their scope of practice so we can continue to work together. After all, both our job descriptions are anything but simple.

I agree it is not about lies. I have noticed there are various routes to take in nursing and depending on what state you reside in the scope of practice can add to the confusion. I have learned along the way to ask the board for advice and no one else or you find yourself very frustrated with the inconsistency on information. Also, I have realized not to assume that just because someone has a certification or license does not mean the confidence of skills, etc. is there. They may have been out of the field for a long time or not worked in a particular specialty for a while and if you don't use the skill often how can you truly be comfortable?

Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.
On 1/24/2019 at 3:36 PM, BarrelOfMonkeys said:

In some hospitals, while they’re hiring LPNs, in the fine print it’s noticed the institution hiring has an expectation that the newly hired LPN will get their RN degree/license within X years or by X date.

On 1/24/2019 at 3:44 PM, LPNTORN704 said:

Not necessarily, not at the hospital me and my friends work at.Also, do you work for all the institutions you are speaking for?do you work in the HR department?just trying to understand.

I think the previous poster was just talking about "some" hospitals, not "all" hospitals. Your hospital may function differently, and that's fine. Both of you can be correct here.

Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.
On 1/24/2019 at 1:03 PM, Divine-LPN,BSN said:
I did a job search for random hospitals throughout the USA and saw that LPN's and LVN's are commonly hired in hospitals. In California, I saw several openings for LPN's/LVN's on the Colusa Medical Center web site.4 Similarly in Ohio, I saw some job openings at the Akron Children's Hospital.5 As I continued to read the article, it stated "In hospitals, LPN duties, as well as advancement opportunities, are more limited.

REFERENCES:

5. LPN w/ Medication Card: Akron Children's Hospital Careers. Akron Children's Hospital Web site. https://careers.akronchildrens.org/jobs/182609?lang=en-us. Accessed December 23, 2018.

As a pediatric nurse, the mention of Akron Children's Hospital piqued my interest, and when you included references I wanted to look into it more. The link didn't work, but I was able to find the LPN job postings with the root of the link.

It appears that there were three areas of LPN jobs: clinic, school nurse (including 1:1 assignments), and home health. Not to put too fine of a point on it, but most of the job descriptions outright say that the duties are to be performed under RN supervision. The others describe a nursing chain of command, but are not clear on if it is LPN or RN (or both). To be clear, none of this means that the LPN jobs are easy. They require both skill and knowledge.

CarolinaRN0501 noted above that another one of your sources seemed to be taken somewhat out of context, and I would like to suggest the same of this source as well. In an article accusing others of prevarications against LPNs, it seems that you may also be skirting the truth - just in the other direction.

On 1/25/2019 at 12:54 PM, Golden_RN said:

Sorry if I missed this in your post, but did you obtain a BSN, but then never get licensed as an RN? If so, why is that?

I have learned a TON from LVNs and have worked with some exceptional LVNs.

I HIGHLY recommend anyone thinking of becoming an LVN to really do research about job/salary prospects. If you, as an LVN, make more $ than an RN, that is really the exception.

In my region, there are no LVNs in acute care. They were phased out years ago. Most LVNs will work in clinics or LTC (I did too, and loved it), and RNs make almost double what LVNs make. It is unfair to paint an unrealistic picture of job opportunities or salaries for LVNs, some of whom spend tons of money on private colleges.

The scope of practice of LVNs and RNs have some big differences that the original post does not explain...and, so what? My scope of practice as an RN is narrower than that of a NP. There is a hierarchy, and everyone has an important role in the continuum of care. There really is not a reason to be defensive about it.

I agree I think alot of the confusion lies from state to state. Where I am in nc I do everything an rn does but in California I wasnt able to which is highly confusing.I currently iv meds when I was told lpns couldnt give it.My pay is great as an lpn but then again it depends where you work,your skill, and ability to negotiate. If you get your rn I dont feel I'd have to negotiate a higher pay rate I'd automatically recieve it.if that makes any sense

On 1/26/2019 at 7:01 PM, BrandonLPN said:

If you want to be disheartened, go read the Yahoo! comments section on the story about the nurse who impregnated the nursing home resident. It’s unbelievable how many commentators are “correcting” the article by saying the culprit is “a LPN, not a nurse”.

It's because they are ignorant and misinformed. People dont understand that there are more than one type of nurse. I never knew what an lpn was until a friend told me she was going to lpn school.when I found out I went and that's how I became an lpn. The first think they normally come in contact with at hospitals are rn's so that's all they know unfortunately

Specializes in Hospice,LTC,Pacu,Regulatory,Operating room.

My mother is an LPN who has been one for over 28 years. she makes $24 hr and she considers this top dollar. I am an RN and make $55 per hour.You will find pay ranges will differ depending on your position. I She also has an associate degree she obtained after lpn school. She has worked as an LPN mostly in nursing homes, home care . The canvas is changing as my sister is an LPN as well and works as a cord blood banker. She however took the position under the contractual obligation that she completes her RN in a certain period of time or be replaced. she makes $18 hr with 7 years experience. I would tell others that there is nothing wrong with LPN however your RN opens many other doors and the scope is still much larger. If you are just comparing pay ranges and meeting a LPN that was a supervisor and these are your goals then this is fine but you must understand home health can have a LPN supervisor if she is supervising HHA,CNA's and other LPNS. What she cannot do is manage the RN's.

Good luck in your future endeavors. I hope that you attempt the RN again.

I love all the different levels of nursing as i started as an CNA many moons ago.