License Fears

brownbook · Sep 19, 2018

I assume it comes from nursing school? Teachers stressing about thorough charting, "If you are in a courtroom your thorough charting will save your license." Or errors/mistakes that, yeah require an incident report, but teachers imply you may lose your license over.

Be better for teachers to discuss how nurses and doctors are human, you will make mistakes, this is what you do when you make one. If you're fired for one mistake you are working for a terrible employer and lucky to get out of there. Few, if any, licenses are rescended over errors.

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN · Sep 19, 2018

I really, truly believe all students should spend a day at BON disciplinary hearings. Pay attention to the causes of 'loosing your license' (spelling error intentional).

JKL33 · Sep 19, 2018

Simple.

It's fairly common blabber in nursing school. It came up especially often when being instructed about those idiot doctors and how they can write bad orders and tell you to do things that will "put your license at risk" if you do them. Along with examples like what brownbook mentioned.

The latest example came straight from employer's mouth to the corporate body of axe-murdering, morally-bankrupt folks known as nursing staff, as a threat. (By the way, the topic was not something for which a loss of license would be a reasonable outcome.....go figure.)

It's a combination of foolish instruction and hateful threats.

It's sad the things that people worry about losing their licenses over, and it's hilarious how perturbed it makes people when others worry about it.

I agree with mmj - - not to prove people wrong, but to empower them.

rzyzzy · Sep 20, 2018

This is a serious question.
Why do I see in so many posts, constant pervasive FEAR of losing ones nursing license?
It's mentioned in so many posts, that I wonder what is wrong with ME!
TO Whit:. 24 years a RN. Many different jobs , and
Seldom if ever worried about " losing my license ! " Or the old- standby " putting my license At Risk!"
Maybe because I knew that at any place I worked, even the doo-doo holes, I just watched my own business and took care of what I was supposed to do ?
I don't know-. No one at any job I held used to talk like this either, save for one ne'er do well " nurse" at my last job ( with the state), who used the I Won't Put My License At Risk mantra to get out of ANYTHING she did not WANT to do- which included legitimate assignments
Baffled

Much like real estate, the key words are location, location, location.

Some work environments are completely different than others - you speak of doo doo holes, but it really doesn't seem like you've worked in one. There's no way to "just watch your own business" if you are in am impossible situation.

True story - my life. Hired at a nursing home, the DON called myself and another employee into her office for the "abuse talk" on the 2nd day of employment - which is legit and I fully support. I didn't become a nurse to abuse people, and I don't want to be around abusers.

She advised that the facility has six residents who have filed false abuse claims in the past, three who have filed more than one (provably false) complaint. // in the past six months // . She puts a colored star on those patient's doors, and no one is ever allowed in that patient's room without a witness. If you are in one of those "star" rooms without a witness, and an allegation is made, she will do nothing to defend you. The employee gets fired and reported to the board, without any attempt at investigation on the employer's part.

So simple. She's terminated a couple of employees in the past year for just that reason. According to her, the state's investigators "love" her policies, and use them as an example for other homes.

I bet they do! - employee summarily fired and accused, then given an opportunity to prove themselves innocent through I dunno, magic?

I don't know every stat's policies, but in Az, as soon as an accusation is made of abuse, it'll pop on the Bon website right next to your license number within a few days. If it's a "high risk" complaint, like a nurse found passed out with a needle in their arm, the state's investigation is super fast - you'll lose your license before you come down from your buzz.

But a "he said, she said" without marks or witnesses - will take six months or a year to investigate, and the nurse will carry the scarlet letter on the website until it's over.

And there's no incentive for the state to look for innocence, their only mission is to protect the public. Even if there's no reason to believe the allegations are accurate, there's also no reason not to issue a "letter of concern.. ".

Needless to say, I quit after the "abuse talk" - not because I'm an abuser, but because I can't afford to risk my license by working for an employer who can toss their employees to the wolves for fun or sport.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Sep 20, 2018

I lost my license once.

Turns out it was in the other pocket.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Sep 20, 2018

98% of the reasons many nurses claim you'll lose your license over is complete hogwash.

twinsmom788 · Sep 20, 2018

I really, truly believe all students should spend a day at BON disciplinary hearings. Pay attention to the causes of 'loosing your license' (spelling error intentional).

Yes! When I worked for the BON we had groups of students at almost every meeting. It was an eyeopening experience for them without a doubt. The more interesting cases, though, were settled before the Board meetings in a much smaller venue composed of one Board member, one attorney, the Board staff, and usually the nurse in question. No members of the public were present.

twinsmom788 · Sep 20, 2018

Much like real estate, the key words are location, location, location.
Some work environments are completely different than others - you speak of doo doo holes, but it really doesn't seem like you've worked in one. There's no way to "just watch your own business" if you are in am impossible situation.
True story - my life. Hired at a nursing home, the DON called myself and another employee into her office for the "abuse talk" on the 2nd day of employment - which is legit and I fully support. I didn't become a nurse to abuse people, and I don't want to be around abusers.
She advised that the facility has six residents who have filed false abuse claims in the past, three who have filed more than one (provably false) complaint. // in the past six months // . She puts a colored star on those patient's doors, and no one is ever allowed in that patient's room without a witness. If you are in one of those "star" rooms without a witness, and an allegation is made, she will do nothing to defend you. The employee gets fired and reported to the board, without any attempt at investigation on the employer's part.
So simple. She's terminated a couple of employees in the past year for just that reason. According to her, the state's investigators "love" her policies, and use them as an example for other homes.
I bet they do! - employee summarily fired and accused, then given an opportunity to prove themselves innocent through I dunno, magic?
I don't know every stat's policies, but in Az, as soon as an accusation is made of abuse, it'll pop on the Bon website right next to your license number within a few days. If it's a "high risk" complaint, like a nurse found passed out with a needle in their arm, the state's investigation is super fast - you'll lose your license before you come down from your buzz.
But a "he said, she said" without marks or witnesses - will take six months or a year to investigate, and the nurse will carry the scarlet letter on the website until it's over.
And there's no incentive for the state to look for innocence, their only mission is to protect the public. Even if there's no reason to believe the allegations are accurate, there's also no reason not to issue a "letter of concern.. ".
Needless to say, I quit after the "abuse talk" - not because I'm an abuser, but because I can't afford to risk my license by working for an employer who can toss their employees to the wolves for fun or sport.

wow, this is unbelievable...I can't blame you for leaving that job. I have investigated so many of these types of complaints. The state bureau of investigation, and Adult Protective Services also investigates so for the vast majority of these claims are proved to be false.

rzyzzy · Sep 21, 2018

wow, this is unbelievable...I can't blame you for leaving that job. I have investigated so many of these types of complaints. The state bureau of investigation, and Adult Protective Services also investigates so for the vast majority of these claims are proved to be false.

Some in the earlier comments have stated that attending a board meeting should ally any "reasonable" fears of losing a license over a legitimate error or mistake, and I can't argue that - it does seem that most cases resulting in the loss of a license "appear" straightforward and justified.

That said, my own attendance at a Bon hearing, along with reading a state inspector-general's report, and the relevant laws scared the poop out of me. The inspector general's report concluded that my state's Bon had used its subpoena powers to gather huge piles of data on nurses, often completely unrelated to the charges at hand. Driving records, personal medical information, etc. they had then sifted through that (unnecessary) information hunting witches.

Some "minor" or heavily disputed cases lingered for several *years* - and, put on your "critical thinking cap" here - the nurse carried that scarlet letter next to their license number on the state's website the entire time.

How many of you nurse-managers are willing to hire a nurse with a "under investigation for patient abuse" next to their name?

Reading the law, all Americans are entitled to remain silent when questioned, except for nurses who would like the "privilege" of keeping their license intact - nurses have to answer questions from the board - it's not optional.

And the "right to confront your accuser"? Nope, not if the complainant is a child or a "vulnerable adult".

The laws are all well-intentioned and in spirit of protecting the vulnerable, but it would be incredibly easy for an innocent nurse to get buried and ruined by even one investigator with an axe to grind, or even just an urge to quickly close an ambiguous file.

In my old state, a "letter of concern" is specifically mentioned as a possible remedy for the board that "isn't discipline" but it sure sounds like discipline..

In any case, it's perfectly reasonable to consider the BON an organization that does not exist to "support" nurses or to promote the practice of nursing, they're a regulatory and disciplinary organization period.

They can hurt nurses, but they really can't get you a raise or better working conditions. No contact with the BON is a good one, unless you're there to pick up a license.