I was at a Magnet meeting today, and one of the participants questioned why there is a nursing shortage. One of our nursing administrators stated that there are less instructors because the salaries are not competitive (a basically known fact), and also, that there are statistics proving that there are less students applying for nursing programs. I am asking those that may have these statistics if this is true.
I know that I am speaking from a limited point of view; I can only speak for the schools within my area (especially community colleges); but I am hearing stories (and have witnessed) of RN programs having limited seats with over 300 applicants. Many are on waiting lists from anywhere from 2 years or more anticipating a seat. I am not seeing this. I have no statistics before me, but am having a hard time believing this, but again, this is from my own small circle of the world.
Does anyone have these stats, or have heard of them in their respective programs? I am looking for enlightenment. I am aware that there may have been a decrease of applicants in the beginning of the AIDS scare, but not currently.
That's funny, but honestly you don't know much about it. What you know is what you have seen in your experiences in your program. If you program is anything like mine, those instructors are juggling other classes or doing other work for the program when not working directly with you. .
The Director of the Nursing program where I am, the salaries of all teaching positions are actually posted. She has a Masters degree, at a state college, with state benefits, and her salary is over $104,000 per year.
Our school's offices open at 8:00 a.m., but she doesn't get there before 9:00 a.m. They close at 5:00 p.m. but if you don't call by 4:30, they will tell you she has already left. During this summer, she only works until 12:00 noon on Fridays....that isn't even a 40-hour work-week, plus the college is closed during Spring Break, most of Christmas, Fall break, etc and all major holidays...you don't get that at a hospital.
The nursing faculty, all have MSN's. Their salaries range from $55K to $74K. Our nursing school doesn't have classes on Fridays, and this entire summer, there was only ONE faculty member from the nursing department at my school, PER DAY. This is in addition, again, to all major holidays. Their offices closed at 12:00 p.m. all summer on Friday's.
You have to look at the hours that are actually worked. How much vacation time and time-off do you get at your job? Can you imagine only working one day a week for the entire summer?
That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
I don't consider that underpaid...not by any stretch of the imagination. The starting salary around here is $21 per hour for RN's and from my understanding, when I get my NNP, I'll be lucky if I see $70K that first year.
There's an article in the most recent issue of TIME Magazine entitled "Be a Nurse, Get a Tan". It details the opening of a nursing school in the Carribean that caters to those who cannot get a placement in the US. It gives the pros (hey, it's the CARRIBEAN! and there was no waitlist). And it gives the cons (cost: about $40K for a two-year degree and no track record on the NCLEX).
But for those who want to go to the TIME site (the URL of which I don't have handy, but I'm sure you can Google without a problem), it also shows a bar graph of the number of eligible candidates denied placement in US nursing programs from 2002 to 2006. The jump, the increase, is scary.
The Director of the Nursing program where I am, the salaries of all teaching positions are actually posted. She has a Masters degree, at a state college, with state benefits, and her salary is over $104,000 per year.
Our school's offices open at 8:00 a.m., but she doesn't get there before 9:00 a.m. They close at 5:00 p.m. but if you don't call by 4:30, they will tell you she has already left. During this summer, she only works until 12:00 noon on Fridays....that isn't even a 40-hour work-week, plus the college is closed during Spring Break, most of Christmas, Fall break, etc and all major holidays...you don't get that at a hospital.
The nursing faculty, all have MSN's. Their salaries range from $55K to $74K. Our nursing school doesn't have classes on Fridays, and this entire summer, there was only ONE faculty member from the nursing department at my school, PER DAY. This is in addition, again, to all major holidays. Their offices closed at 12:00 p.m. all summer on Friday's.
You have to look at the hours that are actually worked. How much vacation time and time-off do you get at your job? Can you imagine only working one day a week for the entire summer?
That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
I don't consider that underpaid...not by any stretch of the imagination. The starting salary around here is $21 per hour for RN's and from my understanding, when I get my NNP, I'll be lucky if I see $70K that first year.
Just to share the flip side of that....you say "you have to look at the hours that are actually worked". Well, I know that the faculty of my alma mater worked WAY more hours than was on their office doors! They had clinical groups (extra time not on the doors), time spent grading papers (and with nursing assignments as they are, was rarely a quick grade). There was time spent in the lab with students, time spent after and before classes that was not "office hours" but students cornered them anyway. There was time creating tests and re-working assignments PRN. All in all, I'd say they definitely worked a full-time-plus schedule. So having the extra time and such in the summers and holidays was a perk, so what? I'm glad they have it, so they keep showing up and teaching the next class of hopefuls! :)
There's an article in the most recent issue of TIME Magazine entitled "Be a Nurse, Get a Tan". It details the opening of a nursing school in the Carribean that caters to those who cannot get a placement in the US. It gives the pros (hey, it's the CARRIBEAN! and there was no waitlist). And it gives the cons (cost: about $40K for a two-year degree and no track record on the NCLEX).
"Rebecca Patton, head of the American Nurses Association, warns that IUON hasn't yet proved that it can produce qualified nurses. "We need to watch the school closely," she says. "Can students come back and sit successfully for the licensing exam?" To improve their odds, IUON nursing students attend classes in St. Kitts for three semesters but finish their clinical studies at one of six partner schools in the U.S. Ross pays these cash-strapped schools tuition plus an undisclosed fee. Dr. James Utterback, president of Oklahoma's Seminole State College, was one of Ross's first partners. "We benefit from the extra funds and added diversity on our campus," Utterback says. Seminole doesn't have enough teachers to enroll IUON'S students fully, but it can accommodate a few for a semester's worth of instruction."
The Director of the Nursing program where I am, the salaries of all teaching positions are actually posted. She has a Masters degree, at a state college, with state benefits, and her salary is over $104,000 per year.
Our school's offices open at 8:00 a.m., but she doesn't get there before 9:00 a.m. They close at 5:00 p.m. but if you don't call by 4:30, they will tell you she has already left. During this summer, she only works until 12:00 noon on Fridays....that isn't even a 40-hour work-week, plus the college is closed during Spring Break, most of Christmas, Fall break, etc and all major holidays...you don't get that at a hospital.
The nursing faculty, all have MSN's. Their salaries range from $55K to $74K. Our nursing school doesn't have classes on Fridays, and this entire summer, there was only ONE faculty member from the nursing department at my school, PER DAY. This is in addition, again, to all major holidays. Their offices closed at 12:00 p.m. all summer on Friday's.
You have to look at the hours that are actually worked. How much vacation time and time-off do you get at your job? Can you imagine only working one day a week for the entire summer?
That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
I don't consider that underpaid...not by any stretch of the imagination. The starting salary around here is $21 per hour for RN's and from my understanding, when I get my NNP, I'll be lucky if I see $70K that first year.
$55K to have the responsibility of several students on your licensce is "not a bad deal"? Yeah, OK. Those instructors are probably working on lesson plans, correcting tests, etc. at home and over the summer they're working on courses for the next year. Just because they're not in the office where you can see them doesn't mean they're not working.
Are we at such a pathetic point that now be begrudge the few nurses who actually do get compensated well?
$55K to have the responsibility of several students on your licensce is "not a bad deal"? Yeah, OK. Those instructors are probably working on lesson plans, correcting tests, etc. at home and over the summer they're working on courses for the next year. Just because they're not in the office where you can see them doesn't mean they're not working.
Are we at such a pathetic point that now be begrudge the few nurses who actually do get compensated well?
Exactly. Most students (and most hospital staff members) have NO IDEA what it takes to be a college teacher. As I have posted before, the part of the job that students see directly is only a small part of the actual job. There is class preparation, overall course and curriculum planning, a million and one committees, research expectations, pubilication expectations, etc. etc. etc.
Just because a faculty member is not in her office doesn't mean she is not working. That would be like saying that nursing students are only "doing school work" while they are sitting in class -- as if they didn't do any schoolwork outside of the scheduled class time!
That's where hospital staff nurse jobs have an advantage. Most staff nurses are paid hourly and most of their work is "on the clock." Very little is done during hours when they are not being paid -- and usually at their place of work. They even get overtime when they work beyond 40 hours in a week. You can't apply that mentality to most leadership and/or faculty jobs because they are salaried -- paid a flat salary regardless of how many hows the job takes and/or where the work is done.
I'm still recovering from the post claiming it's no big deal to have a bunch of students on your license, and that $55K sounds about right for that job. The only thing I chalk that up to is just not having a clue how much responsibility nursing instructors have--I'm not even an instructor and even I know that it's a heavy responsibility. I sure wouldn't want it. It takes a special person to want to teach. $55k isn't close to what faculty should make.
Horse hockey! The so-called "nursing shortage" is a figment of management's imaginations.
There is no true nursing shortage, since 500,000 RNs and an unknown number of LPNs have active licensure, yet they are not working.
There is a shortage of nurses who will work under crappy conditions for inadequate pay and disrespectful treatment. There is a shortage of nurses who are willing to deal with the difficult patients, snappish physicians, abrasive family members, terrible management, and the other hostile ingredients that come with the brutal territory of bedside nursing.
I'm still recovering from the post claiming it's no big deal to have a bunch of students on your license, and that $55K sounds about right for that job. The only thing I chalk that up to is just not having a clue how much responsibility nursing instructors have--I'm not even an instructor and even I know that it's a heavy responsibility. I sure wouldn't want it. It takes a special person to want to teach. $55k isn't close to what faculty should make.
You and several others are missing the point.
The point isn't how much the responsibility it is, etc. The original point was that there is a claim that nursing schools can't get faculty because of low pay, as if they can ALWAYS make more at a hospital. In my area, because I certainly can't speak for all geographical areas, that just isn't true.
The wages that I stated do allow for someone to make a very good living, and the pay for nursing faculty is well-above, at least in my area, other faculty members for that very reason.
I have been to school long enough to know that professors grade papers, plan for assignments, etc, outside of the school...why shouldn't they? Isn't that part of the job? However, it's not like they are working 8:00 a.m. and not allowed to leave until 5:00 pm. and then having to work another few hours after they get home.
I am in no way BASHING anyone....none of my posts bashed anyone. I was merely stating a fact, representative, of my school only.
It's like the first part of AP I that I took this summer..our professor actually stated that some days he couldn't "go" until our full time because he needed to go home to sleep and sometimes let us out at 11:30 for a class that started at 8:00 a.m.....do you think he would be able to work anywhere else and do that? Of course not. He would have to work a full 8-hours, non-stop, in any other job.
The point isn't how much the responsibility it is, etc. The original point was that there is a claim that nursing schools can't get faculty because of low pay, as if they can ALWAYS make more at a hospital. In my area, because I certainly can't speak for all geographical areas, that just isn't true.
The wages that I stated do allow for someone to make a very good living, and the pay for nursing faculty is well-above, at least in my area, other faculty members for that very reason.
I have been to school long enough to know that professors grade papers, plan for assignments, etc, outside of the school...why shouldn't they? Isn't that part of the job? However, it's not like they are working 8:00 a.m. and not allowed to leave until 5:00 pm. and then having to work another few hours after they get home.
I am in no way BASHING anyone....none of my posts bashed anyone. I was merely stating a fact, representative, of my school only.
It's like the first part of AP I that I took this summer..our professor actually stated that some days he couldn't "go" until our full time because he needed to go home to sleep and sometimes let us out at 11:30 for a class that started at 8:00 a.m.....do you think he would be able to work anywhere else and do that? Of course not. He would have to work a full 8-hours, non-stop, in any other job.
What happens at your shcool, however, is not representative of what the norm is for most programs. We have several people on this board who are instructors who can vouch for what others are saying.
So if your instructors are well-compensated and don't have to work all that hard, really, why are you even begrudging them of that? Shouldn't the people who teach future generations of nurses be well-compensated? I don't get what the problem is.
In spite of what you say, the data is out there to prove that the dearth of instructors is directly related to low income and high student:instructor ratios. Just because that isn't your reality doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The point isn't how much the responsibility it is, etc. The original point was that there is a claim that nursing schools can't get faculty because of low pay, as if they can ALWAYS make more at a hospital. In my area, because I certainly can't speak for all geographical areas, that just isn't true.
The wages that I stated do allow for someone to make a very good living, and the pay for nursing faculty is well-above, at least in my area, other faculty members for that very reason.
I have been to school long enough to know that professors grade papers, plan for assignments, etc, outside of the school...why shouldn't they? Isn't that part of the job? However, it's not like they are working 8:00 a.m. and not allowed to leave until 5:00 pm. and then having to work another few hours after they get home.
I am in no way BASHING anyone....none of my posts bashed anyone. I was merely stating a fact, representative, of my school only.
It's like the first part of AP I that I took this summer..our professor actually stated that some days he couldn't "go" until our full time because he needed to go home to sleep and sometimes let us out at 11:30 for a class that started at 8:00 a.m.....do you think he would be able to work anywhere else and do that? Of course not. He would have to work a full 8-hours, non-stop, in any other job.
You shouldn't be made to feel like you're bashing someone. You're allowed your opinion and you statements of what goes on where you live.
Until we walk a mile in another's shoes, or become a fly one the wall, we really can't say what they do. But the hours are nice. I had one instructor mention that in an article in the paper. She loved the students, but the hours are nice "no weekends, holidays off (a very long Xmas break), reduced summer hours for some.
Most nursing instructors are not fresh from school. They have years of experience in nursing behind them and many have to take a cut in pay to teach. I would quit my job today and teach full time but for the over 10,000 pay cut. I just got divorced and need my current salary to make ends meet. So if I do teach I'll keep my job and teach part time. (Still have to get my Masters though). So while a blanket statement that nurses in other jobs ALWAYS make more than instructors isn't true, it is more often the case because these nurses are not new grads but making good money because of years of experience. (Obviously not in your area. But I wonder what nurses with 10 or 15 years experience in one facility make where you live, and how does that compare with the instructors at your school?)
justme1972
2,441 Posts
The Director of the Nursing program where I am, the salaries of all teaching positions are actually posted. She has a Masters degree, at a state college, with state benefits, and her salary is over $104,000 per year.
Our school's offices open at 8:00 a.m., but she doesn't get there before 9:00 a.m. They close at 5:00 p.m. but if you don't call by 4:30, they will tell you she has already left. During this summer, she only works until 12:00 noon on Fridays....that isn't even a 40-hour work-week, plus the college is closed during Spring Break, most of Christmas, Fall break, etc and all major holidays...you don't get that at a hospital.
The nursing faculty, all have MSN's. Their salaries range from $55K to $74K. Our nursing school doesn't have classes on Fridays, and this entire summer, there was only ONE faculty member from the nursing department at my school, PER DAY. This is in addition, again, to all major holidays. Their offices closed at 12:00 p.m. all summer on Friday's.
You have to look at the hours that are actually worked. How much vacation time and time-off do you get at your job? Can you imagine only working one day a week for the entire summer?
That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
I don't consider that underpaid...not by any stretch of the imagination. The starting salary around here is $21 per hour for RN's and from my understanding, when I get my NNP, I'll be lucky if I see $70K that first year.