I was at a Magnet meeting today, and one of the participants questioned why there is a nursing shortage. One of our nursing administrators stated that there are less instructors because the salaries are not competitive (a basically known fact), and also, that there are statistics proving that there are less students applying for nursing programs. I am asking those that may have these statistics if this is true.
I know that I am speaking from a limited point of view; I can only speak for the schools within my area (especially community colleges); but I am hearing stories (and have witnessed) of RN programs having limited seats with over 300 applicants. Many are on waiting lists from anywhere from 2 years or more anticipating a seat. I am not seeing this. I have no statistics before me, but am having a hard time believing this, but again, this is from my own small circle of the world.
Does anyone have these stats, or have heard of them in their respective programs? I am looking for enlightenment. I am aware that there may have been a decrease of applicants in the beginning of the AIDS scare, but not currently.
In northern NJ, all nursing programs have waiting lists in diploma and community college programs. A two year program, usually takes 3 years to complete. MSN professors make approximately 55k for working a full time schedule, many of my former professors continued to work per diem for extra cash. Clinical space is becoming more difficult to find as many hospitals are changing their floors to telemetry beds-due to the increase of complex patients many nurses have no time(or inclination) to precept a student(especially clinical I and II). BSN programs at the four year colleges have pretty high gpa requirements-just a few crappy classes can keep you from entering the program(there is no guarenteed entry). People get in those coveted spots, and realize once they hit the floor that nursing is not for them(a spot lost to someone who wasn't sure).
I started with 144 students in my Nursing I class, we graduated with 77-this is including students who had failed a clinical and was reinstated after a years wait. The graduated rate of nurses is much less than anticipated with each class. I truly believe some type of healthcare experience should be a requirement so that spaces won't be wasted on people who don't know what the job is all about. I am sure there are additional reasons, but this is all I can come up with tonight.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I was at a Magnet meeting today, and one of the participants questioned why there is a nursing shortage.
Horse hockey! The so-called "nursing shortage" is a figment of management's imaginations.
There is no true nursing shortage, since 500,000 RNs and an unknown number of LPNs have active licensure, yet they are not working.
There is a shortage of nurses who will work under crappy conditions for inadequate pay and disrespectful treatment. There is a shortage of nurses who are willing to deal with the difficult patients, snappish physicians, abrasive family members, terrible management, and the other hostile ingredients that come with the brutal territory of bedside nursing.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Horse hockey! The so-called "nursing shortage" is a figment of management's imaginations.
There is no true nursing shortage, since 500,000 RNs and an unknown number of LPNs have active licensure, yet they are not working.
There is a shortage of nurses who will work under crappy conditions for inadequate pay and disrespectful treatment. There is a shortage of nurses who are willing to deal with the difficult patients, snappish physicians, abrasive family members, terrible management, and the other hostile ingredients that come with the brutal territory of bedside nursing.
I do believe that there is not a shortage of licensed nurses, but is a shortage of licensed nurses willing to work the bedside due to horrible conditions.
However, the question I am trying to get an answer to is: Is is true that there is a shortage of nursing APPLICANTS? I think that the answer is 'no'. I think it is not true because of my personal experience, friends I speak to and these boards. At the Magnet meeting, they were saying that there are statistics proving that there are decreased numbers of people applying for nursing programs. In my experience, I am seeing programs that have limited seating and too many applicants. Therefore, the selection process has resorted to selecting those with the highest GPAs or lotteries.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
And what is pissing me off about this twilight zone road to Magnet Status is that our nursing administrators are speaking so much of interdisciplinary collaboration, but these same nurses are absolutely disrespectful towards their collagues. I am sometimes embarassed to be a nurse when I see such blatent behavior. I noticed that if I call and ask for assistance, once I say I am a nurse, the attitude changes because of the recipiant's previous experience with nurses (mostly bad) and I spend a great deal of time trying to get them to feel comfortable in helping *me* because *I* am not like that. Hate to say it, but I really hope that our hospital doesn't get magnet, because if they do, it will be business as usual with a vengence. They will be too arrogant to come down a peg or two.
I also know that the Department Head makes over $104,000 per year....that's not too bad for a M-F, 8:30 to 4:00 job and working only partially in the summer with every holiday off.
This is way more than any college president in the community colleges in NH are making, nevermind department heads!
I was at a Magnet meeting today, and one of the participants questioned why there is a nursing shortage. One of our nursing administrators stated that there are less instructors because the salaries are not competitive (a basically known fact), and also, that there are statistics proving that there are less students applying for nursing programs. I am asking those that may have these statistics if this is true.
The number of students applying for admission continues to rise annually, though admissions have not risen accordingly. Here are a couple of reports with statistics you might find helpful:
- The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) released preliminary survey data which show that enrollment in entry-level baccalaureate nursing programs increased by 5.0 percent from 2005 to 2006. Though this increase is welcome, surveyed nursing colleges and universities turned away more than 32,000 qualified applicants due primarily to a shortage of nurse educators.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
The number of students applying for admission continues to rise annually, though admissions have not risen accordingly. Here are a couple of reports with statistics you might find helpful:
- The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) released preliminary survey data which show that enrollment in entry-level baccalaureate nursing programs increased by 5.0 percent from 2005 to 2006. Though this increase is welcome, surveyed nursing colleges and universities turned away more than 32,000 qualified applicants due primarily to a shortage of nurse educators.
Thanks for sharing this article. This is proof that what was mentioned at that meeting was basically a load of crock. :angryfire
And, I am almost sure that out of that 75, at least half may not complete the program. Horrible....:angryfire
I am curious about the high attrition rates for nursing programs that people describe on this board. Is anyone aware of a study that looks at what actual dropout and/or failure rates are? If I were a state lawmaker overseeing funding for many of these programs, I'd be asking a lot of questions.
There is a well-known nursing school in my area, for example, that is touting its 100 percent NCLEX pass rate for the class that just graduated in May. What the school doesn't say in the press release that it sends out to the media is that it always flunks out at least 40 percent of its second-year class well in advance of the NCLEX -- so of course it's got a high pass rate. They get rid of any possible failures. This year, 60 percent of students were flunked out in advance of the NCLEX. They have to reapply and, if admitted, retake courses.
What do high attrition rates really mean? Yes, nursing programs are challenging, and some people will choose to leave. But a 60 percent failure rate? That tells me that either a) the school does a poor job of screening applicants and needs to improve admissions standards or b) the faculty does a poor job of teaching and needs to make some drastic improvements. Regardless of whether the answer is a or b, I cannot help but arrive at a persistent c) the school views incoming students as a constant revenue stream and, given high demand for its services, has no motivation to increase admission standards or improve its offerings.
Yup, I'm off topic. But I do wonder if a lot of students are being taken advantage of. I am very skeptical when I hear these stories of high failure rates. If there are any instructors reading this thread, I'd appreciate seeing what you think. Do admission standards need to be strengthened?
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I am curious about the high attrition rates for nursing programs that people describe on this board. Is anyone aware of a study that looks at what actual dropout and/or failure rates are? If I were a state lawmaker overseeing funding for many of these programs, I'd be asking a lot of questions.
There is a well-known nursing school in my area, for example, that is touting its 100 percent NCLEX pass rate for the class that just graduated in May. What the school doesn't say in the press release that it sends out to the media is that it always flunks out at least 40 percent of its second-year class well in advance of the NCLEX -- so of course it's got a high pass rate. They get rid of any possible failures. This year, 60 percent of students were flunked out in advance of the NCLEX. They have to reapply and, if admitted, retake courses.
What do high attrition rates really mean? Yes, nursing programs are challenging, and some people will choose to leave. But a 60 percent failure rate? That tells me that either a) the school does a poor job of screening applicants and needs to improve admissions standards or b) the faculty does a poor job of teaching and needs to make some drastic improvements. Regardless of whether the answer is a or b, I cannot help but arrive at a persistent c) the school views incoming students as a constant revenue stream and, given high demand for its services, has no motivation to increase admission standards or improve its offerings.
Yup, I'm off topic. But I do wonder if a lot of students are being taken advantage of. I am very skeptical when I hear these stories of high failure rates. If there are any instructors reading this thread, I'd appreciate seeing what you think. Do admission standards need to be strengthened?
It is interesting because I don't think that nursing students should have it easy, but it is hard to determine what is really needed to make a success out of entering into nursing programs. I remember once at my school, most of the students passed fundamentals, making it hard to determine what to do with most of them once they entered into Med-Surg 1. This time, they didn't have enough professors to teach them or to escort them to clinicals. It is almost as though they counted on a certain percentage of them failing and decided not to prepare for this possibility. So, what happened?? Somehow, many of them failed med-surg. It was like they were determined to somehow make up this difference in another way before these students advanced into the following OB-PEDS semester.
I think that now, they are really not preparing students to really enter into the workforce because more focus was placed on theory in my school, and less on clinical practice. It is wonderful to be able to create an inventive care plan, but with minimal skills...how does this compute? And, to me, NCLEX is the twilight zone...especially now. How does one really prepare for this? And, then, to go out into the real world and see that there is even more to it than this?? There is no preparation for the working conditions, shortage of staff, burn out or injury. These factors are not addressed, either.
Our school takes in four classes (cycles) of nursing students per year. Each can only hold max of 24 students. Max that is 94 students that could potentially graduate in a year just in my school as a nurse. The school I attend has about 400-500 applicants per year, just at my school. I don't see it anywhere as a need for more applicants; I see it as a need for more strenuous criteria and more schools solely devoted to nursing students.
We go through 3 tests just to get an interview. Once passing the interview, we have to maintain a 3.0 through our Gen. Eds. just so we can have a seat in our projected class. Once you get to that projected class if there are more than the 24 people, then they weed you out by GPA and your score on the NET test. Throughout the actual core nursing they have 10 weeding tests that if you don't make at least 90% you don't get to proceed. Once you are in your core you must maintain a 3.5 just to stay in the nursing program.
I can appreciate them wanting to turn out the best graduate nurses they can. If this were the policy at all schools I think the new nurse population would decrease drastically. What my hope is that the medical field doesn't get so needy for nurses that schools actually lower their criteria just to get people in and out faster. The medical field WOULD be in a crisis if that were the case I am afraid.
MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN
1,082 Posts
In northern NJ, all nursing programs have waiting lists in diploma and community college programs. A two year program, usually takes 3 years to complete. MSN professors make approximately 55k for working a full time schedule, many of my former professors continued to work per diem for extra cash. Clinical space is becoming more difficult to find as many hospitals are changing their floors to telemetry beds-due to the increase of complex patients many nurses have no time(or inclination) to precept a student(especially clinical I and II). BSN programs at the four year colleges have pretty high gpa requirements-just a few crappy classes can keep you from entering the program(there is no guarenteed entry). People get in those coveted spots, and realize once they hit the floor that nursing is not for them(a spot lost to someone who wasn't sure).
I started with 144 students in my Nursing I class, we graduated with 77-this is including students who had failed a clinical and was reinstated after a years wait. The graduated rate of nurses is much less than anticipated with each class. I truly believe some type of healthcare experience should be a requirement so that spaces won't be wasted on people who don't know what the job is all about. I am sure there are additional reasons, but this is all I can come up with tonight.
Maisy;)