Latest on RaDonda Vaught case

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RaDonda Vaught made at least 10 mistakes in fatal Vanderbilt medication error, prosecutors say

This article outlines details of the prosecution's case. I am curious as to how the defense plans to pin this on the hospital?

I still can't fathom why the Tennessee BON didn't see fit to require at least some reeducation of Ms Vaught!

Specializes in OB.
1 hour ago, Emergent said:

Quote from press release. This woman spouted platitudes in an interview I viewed about how she loved nursing,  and cared so much for her patients. But this quote from her is very telling.

I still maintain that, if the Tennessee Board of Nursing was doing its job to protect the public, and swiftly moved to discipline Ms Vaught,  this wouldn't have been escalated to the DA's office for criminal proceedings. 

In my opinion,  Boards of Nursing are by and large antiquated bodies that harken from a bygone era when woman were treated like children and the postal service used horse-drawn delivery systems. 

Why does it take a year to investigate a nurse who may be a danger to patients? Why can't they tell the difference between a true sentinel event and a minor charting discrepancy? Why do they treat someone who took her sister's Vicodin for a migraine the same as someone stealing Dilaudid from the Pyxus and shooting up in the bathroom at work?

 

 

I agree completely, Emergent.  This case never needed to be elevated to this level--the BON should have acted more swiftly, taken away her license, and Vanderbilt should have been transparent about the mistakes made and settled with the family (I believe they have now).  Done.  I don't see the utility in sending her to prison, but I also would have voted the same way had I been on the jury and been forced to make a choice. 

I have such mixed feeling about this case.  I feel strongly that she should never be allowed to practice as a nurse, that she seems to have no sense of responsibility for her actions, and that generally she seems like a mentally unstable person.  Yet many nurses I know and respect have gotten on the "Team RaDonda" train since this verdict, saying they stand with her, that this will set a precedent for any medical error to be charged criminally.  I simply don't agree, and I don't see that happening.  As others have pointed out, this isn't the first time a medical error has been charged criminally and I don't think a precedent has been set.  I think nurses as a whole are so overworked and under appreciated that they've used this case to highlight mistreatment of nurses by their facilities.  But I just don't think that THIS particular, horrific case is an example of that.  This is an example of one nurse who was grossly incompetent who caused a woman to die a painful, unnecessary death.

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I would have told the ordering provider I am not comfortable given versed for a head bleed pt in an MRI needing close monitoring, would have asked for ativan 0.5PO, the MRI (just what I read) was non-urgent a follow up, so the ordering provider is covered under the NDFR and settlement for Vanderbilt.  Did anyone see the repulsive presentation from the CNO and CEO trying so hard to get out in front of this. 

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16 hours ago, lMCRN said:

I would have told the ordering provider I am not comfortable given versed for a head bleed pt in an MRI needing close monitoring, would have asked for ativan 0.5PO, the MRI (just what I read) was non-urgent a follow up, so the ordering provider is covered under the NDFR and settlement for Vanderbilt.  Did anyone see the repulsive presentation from the CNO and CEO trying so hard to get out in front of this. 

I have read the postings through and noted a disturbing pattern that if anyone so much as gives an inkling that any agent (s) other than RV are at fault or have acted in an irresponsible way they are shut down with vigor dismissing comments as “that’s for later” or “that is a separate issue”. They have just attacked the person demanding evidence or a satisfactory response to how could they possibly know or feel a certain way. Meanwhile posters have personally attacked RV reporting paraphrasing here, not the right temperament, did you see her go fund me account?, she is unable to focus and many more. Some have even suggested that RV is posting and reading the posts. I am not surprised at the postings and so sorry for her if she reading and posting.  Kindness and forgiveness for RV is that for ourselves also. I am wondering the opposite if there are agent (s) for the hospital, TBON etc posting here, it would be very easy to do. I have been off FB for years but created an account to hear others opinions since in my opinion the three or so threads concerning RV reveal 90% unsupportive of her. The FB posts are mostly supportive of her with great concern for the future of nursing, same on Youtube. Admin for allnurses have been notified of my concern. Thank you. And no I am not RV or know her, my name is Shellon Copeland and I work full time in Virginia have 36 years ER, ICU, and yes have made many med errors. 

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15 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

The FB posts are mostly supportive of her

Because if you read the FB posts they are saying the only thing she did wrong was override a medication dispensing cabinet. They are unaware or purposely disregarding the other behaviors that, in my opinion, are the real contributory factors in Charlene Murphey’s death. After all, who among us hasn’t had to override? 

 

20 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

They have just attacked the person demanding evidence or a satisfactory response to how could they possibly know or feel a certain way.

Nobody has been attacked. In fact, the posts about this event have remained largely very polite. There is nothing wrong with asking the reasons why someone takes a particular position on a subject. If you don’t want to have your position challenged just don’t post it. This is a discussion board not a personal forum  

 

24 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

Admin for allnurses have been notified of my concern.

Did you actually report people because they disagree with you or was it a more of a global thing? I’m sure I’m at the top of your suspect list. While I won’t reveal my name I have been a member here since 2010 so unlikely I am a plant from the TBON. 

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44 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

The FB posts are mostly supportive of her with great concern for the future of nursing, same on Youtube. Admin for allnurses have been notified of my concern. 

This may have something to do with the phenomenon LibraSun mentioned above. Here it is again:

21 hours ago, LibraSunCNM said:

 I think nurses as a whole are so overworked and under appreciated that they've used this case to highlight mistreatment of nurses by their facilities.

It is an easy position to take. I myself see Vanderbilt as way more responsible than the (lack of) focus on them would indicate. And hospital corporations and all those who are too big to fail (or too big and important to be put out of business or have their reputation trashed) are extremely high on my list of things to truly despise in this world. I think these places run one huge production machine and treat people like disposable widgets fully knowing that there are a certain number of patients who will be harmed by an error or even die, and as long as that number doesn't mess with their funding/money/profits or their reputation too much it's all good. They are horrible to nurses and they are horrible to patients.

At the same time, if all nurses practiced like RV where would we be?  You can't get a much more non-emergent situation in acute care; this was no emergency. There was nothing about this that had to happen this way.

You are taking an emotional position, the one that feels good, and I understand how easy it is to take, but it is not rational. You were not taught to do any of the number of negligent things that were done here, and there wasn't just one. Or two. Or three. If this were your grandmother I think you would see things a little more clearly. Certainly you wouldn't expect an RN to approach her and push a sedative and walk away while she was getting a non-urgent test and was probably within a day or two of being discharged.  Work is not social hour, it isn't where we go to have fun with our peers. It isn't where we flit around doing poor nursing for unknown reasons.

44 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

my name is Shellon Copeland and I work full time in Virginia have 36 years ER, ICU, and yes have made many med errors. 

Shellon, no one here is saying that they don't make mistakes or that they haven't made a med error. I would like you to consider whether you have a known list of victims you have killed--you should have racked up at least 8-10 or so in 36 years?

I think Vanderbilt should have a proper public flogging by the press and that all leadership should be replaced by assigned professionals who can help them change. They should pay enough penalties that their only choice left is to focus on patients rather than prestige. It should all be bad enough that every one of their peer institutions and businesses are scared absolutely ***. (As it stands right now they seem more afraid of HIPAA penalties than actually killing a patient). I think the leadership who had more direct knowledge of things not having been reported properly should be criminally charged. I think these things are what CMS should ensure when they investigate something like this, rather than shaking their fist for two seconds with their fake-scary "immediate jeopardy" [that will never turn into a removal of funding for a place like Vanderbilt].

But none of that changes the fact that you don't practice like RV and neither do I. Not in a million years.

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I appreciate your opinion and do not agree with most if it. Thanks 

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You're welcome.

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Jkl33 I reread your post several times and do agree with most and appreciate your thoughtful response. Have a nice evening and hope to see you at the March on Washington.

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Specializes in ICU.

20 some pages of discussion; I just hope  this is discussed in nursing classes throughout the country for years.  And maybe a few changes in the whole medication administration process; with the voices of actual floor nurses.

 

If this thought has been put out there earlier, I only got through the first page of discussion; just peeking in to the site.  I'll get back and read the rest. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Nursetom1963 said:

20 some pages of discussion; I just hope  this is discussed in nursing classes throughout the country for years.  And maybe a few changes in the whole medication administration process; with the voices of actual floor nurses.

 

If this thought has been put out there earlier, I only got through the first page of discussion; just peeking in to the site.  I'll get back and read the rest. 

 

As an instructor in clinical I browbeat the students with medication administration processes. Trying to get students to understand the nuances of doctors orders and what Pyxis will do is a challenge until they see those things written. As an instructor to those nurses that have students on the floor, please show them how to interpret those orders that don't make sense, what "house policy" and your board of nursing says and never, ever, give meds that you've not seen drawn up or pulled yourself.

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Specializes in ICU.
On 4/11/2019 at 9:00 AM, hppygr8ful said:

Why do you think you are having close calls every day? What can you do about yourself as well to augment the computer systems? A necessary part of the computer is the RN who is administering the medication, so don't let yourself be fooled that it is supposed to be doing work for you. Which EMR system do you have? (there are some that are objectively bad, I'll give you)

No one should be having close calls that frequently.

Wow, forgot I posted on this way back then. I do take my time, and understand what and why I am giving what I am giving, perhaps I didn't realize the level of failure discussed here.  My near-misses come down to having to sign on to 2-3 layers of computer system multiple times a day; our base OS is Windows 7, then  I sign into Global, then Citrix, then AllScripts, and there is another name I can't remember.  The screen is poorly laid out with way too much extraneous BS (IMHO) to figure out what med/dose/strength/time is ordered.  Couple that with the fact that I have to go to 2 different Pyxis (Pyxi? Pyxises?) then call Pharmacy for the meds I can't find, and remember to give them later; and a BCMA (new term for me) that works sometimes (though Im getting better) and those are my near misses.  I am safe, just slow, "late" meds are every day, but so is everyone else. This has been the way it has been for me for 30 years, but that's a whole 'nother thread.  The only thing I can do about myself is be careful, and go find another job; we've been complaing about our computer system ever since they drug it in from whatever yard sale they found it at; they update it and it gets worse.  But Im going to go back and read the rest of the thread now. 

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23 hours ago, Nursetom1963 said:

we've been complaing about our computer system ever since they drug it in from whatever yard sale they found it at

?

I got in minor trouble once for asking if our "new" equipment was bought at a yard sale.

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