LATERAL Violence. How Nurses treat Nurses!

Moogie · Jun 29, 2009

:yeahthat:

In my experience, the most common type of lateral violence to which the male staff members were subjected was gossip. There was constantly speculation over whether this guy was gay or that guy was having an affair. Who cares? Good gracious, if these men had the wild love lives their co-workers thought they did, they'd never have the time or energy to make it to work!

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jun 29, 2009

your choice of verbiage and the overall tone message raises red flags with me. i'd bet dollars to donuts that you've been a perpetrator of workplace hostility. is that true?

while i have gotten into trouble for being "too direct", i am also the one that the newbies come to when they have questions, concerns or feel they've been bullied.

but did you really expect anyone to wave their hand and say "i'm a bully?" so why ask the question?

your "tone" raises my hackles, too.

metal_m0nk, BSN, RN · Jun 29, 2009

while i have gotten into trouble for being "too direct", i am also the one that the newbies come to when they have questions, concerns or feel they've been bullied.
but did you really expect anyone to wave their hand and say "i'm a bully?" so why ask the question?
your "tone" raises my hackles, too.

you mean, did i expect you to be honest? well, yeah.

PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2009

Then she should change careers. Sorry, but it's a part of our job to pass it on to the next generation.

No. The offending individual should be left alone. Anyone who is being "forced" to teach, cannot teach. She/he is obviously not open to it so it would've been best for the student to have spoken up (if she/he didn't want to be with that RN) rather than stay and "suffer."

NO ONE is obligated to do anything. This is a free country. It would've been a GREAT thing had the RN wanted to assist the younger generation, but no SHE/HE doesn't have to do it.

It is unfortunate, however, that this type of lateral aggression continues to this day--albeit, it is getting better. It was HORRID when I first started, but I was pretty set on learning so nothing and nobody got in my way.

To the student who spoke with the nurse about "her" Kardex--remember that the ULTIMATE person who is RESPONSIBLE LEGALLY for the patient is the RN--not you.

Now, had she been me, I would've GLADLY taken you under my wing and assessed your knowledge/background to so what you can/cannot do during the shift to make the day a little easier. That would've taken all of 10 minutes.

I LOVE students; you guys are the "ideals" of nursing and have all the time to really, really spend with the patient. Don't let crabby personalities get the best of you--deal and MOVE ON...and find someone who can really mentor you.

It will be worth it.

nursecassia · Jun 30, 2009

i work on a floor that used to be notorious for this...when I started I made it very clear to the staff I worked with in no uncertain terms that I would not be tolerant of that type of behavior..I have been there a year, Ive been open and honest with lots of them and let them know what I have observed and things on the floor have gotten so much better..there is more open dialogue about issues upfront instead of letting them stew or discussing them with other people and the floor is doing so much better. It is starting to become the place people want to work instead of running away crying because of crabby nurses. The days and nights go by so much better when you are working with people you care about and can trust, and people that know how to have a good time and not ruin it.

lamazeteacher · Jun 30, 2009

Amen...a sane and educated response. Sounds like you are a teacher....thanks*****

If anyone doubts the long term effects of bullying, read Jody Picoult's book "Nineteen Minutes". In the story told therein, PTSD is the condition of a teenager who was terribly bullied throughout kindergarten to high school. Imagine what can happen (and has happened) to HCWs who have been the subject of lateral violence, when supposedly intelligent graduate nurses target one of their own, as scapegoats for whatever insecurities they have themselves.........

metal_m0nk, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2009

No. The offending individual should be left alone. Anyone who is being "forced" to teach, cannot teach. She/he is obviously not open to it so it would've been best for the student to have spoken up (if she/he didn't want to be with that RN) rather than stay and "suffer."
NO ONE is obligated to do anything. This is a free country. It would've been a GREAT thing had the RN wanted to assist the younger generation, but no SHE/HE doesn't have to do it.
It is unfortunate, however, that this type of lateral aggression continues to this day--albeit, it is getting better. It was HORRID when I first started, but I was pretty set on learning so nothing and nobody got in my way.
To the student who spoke with the nurse about "her" Kardex--remember that the ULTIMATE person who is RESPONSIBLE LEGALLY for the patient is the RN--not you.
Now, had she been me, I would've GLADLY taken you under my wing and assessed your knowledge/background to so what you can/cannot do during the shift to make the day a little easier. That would've taken all of 10 minutes.
I LOVE students; you guys are the "ideals" of nursing and have all the time to really, really spend with the patient. Don't let crabby personalities get the best of you--deal and MOVE ON...and find someone who can really mentor you.
It will be worth it.

A fair and balanced perspective, for certain.

MedSurgeMess · Jun 30, 2009

I actually committed an act of "violence" against one of my coworkers the other day, but considering the scenario, and thanks from many coworkers, I think it was justified--if lateral violence can ever be called justified. I will add that I am usually very direct, but my coworkers know that I'm not mean spirited, but I am honest, and they do appreciate that.

A LPN on our unit with so what.......

The other day, she wrote up the RN that I was precepting--her last day of being precepted--for not giving a med. But I guess that she forgot that in report that we told her and her partner that pharmacy hadn't brought said med yet because order just written 10 min before shift change. She told my preceptee, "are you totally dumb, I mean, I'm smart enough to give a med." I mentioned that we had told her that in report, and she said, "too late, I already wrote her up, maybe she'll learn a lesson." I told her to calm her tone, and she just rolled her eyes and left. Next thing I know, house supervisor is asking my partner what the deal is, because apparently this nitwit from the previous shift called her on the way out, mentioned the incident report and write up, making it sound like the preceptee had all but murdered the patient. After investigating and talking to pharmacy and getting the whole story, she wrote up the LPN for writing false report and told me to write her up for attitude. When she came in that night, I let her know that she had been written up and what for. She starts yelling in the nurses station "you can't do this to me, I'm preg-" which I cut her off with "yes I can, and yes I did, and BTW, if I ever hear of you talking to ANY coworker in a condescending tone, I will write you up again" in a loud enough voice for everyone to hear. I heard from night shift that all night, she just continued on about how mean I was to her. A couple of them even thanked me, thinking that she might just cut out writing everyone up now that she knows how it feels....I really don't like getting this "mean" with someone, just got tired of hearing how she acts towards everyone and gloats about it.....I hope that I don't have to do so again for awhile.

lamazeteacher · Jun 30, 2009

To: strongwilled, regarding your post # 76

It sounds like the issues of the new LPN can be mitigated somewhat by kindness. See what you can do about showing concern about her pregnancy, offering to lift items that weigh more than 10 pounds, for her. If you get everyone to do that, she'll feel more included and cared about, and her attitude may soften toward others.

The fact that she forgot that the med she referred to as missed, could be due to her baby having kicked her, at the time the information about it being ordered less than 10 min. before was said in report. That's pretty distracting. Cut her some slack and she may return the favor. Model the behavior you want for her. Miracles do happen......

I hope the nurses give her a baby shower! Remember the old honey rather than vinegar theory (as well as turning the other cheek).

RN1982 · Jun 30, 2009

Yeah, the LPN deserved her own right up. She was very out of line.

SoundofMusic · Jun 30, 2009

Work is work and home is home. If all of your ego is invested in your job and work relationships...YOU NEED TO GET A LIFE, outside work. Even if it is golf...LOL. Work is not personal...it is professional ...when you invest everything in "being on good terms with everyone" or being "popular" at work, you WILL fail. You will never please everyone you work with, nor should you please everyone you work with. You must do the RIGHT thing, not the popular nor the easy thing, but the RIGHT thing. This WILL make you unpopular with some people....deal with it and get over it. You don't have to please everyone.

This, I feel, is right on. As a nurse w/ a former career, my observation is that a lot of nurses honestly just seem to have no idea how to be professional. It seems as if they've always been in scrubs in rough places and have never really learned to mind their manners. And I'm totally including those in management positions as well.

To work with others professionally means you have to BE mannerly. To be this way is to BE professional. At my unit it seemed a lot of them acted as if the unit WAS their clique -- their circle of friends -- and they didn't seem to be able to separate it. Some of them would come in like 2 hours early just to "chat" w/ whomever their friends were. I found it odd. Work is work -- not a place for social connection. I mean -- yes, you CAN have friends at work and get along -- but these folks loved their clique and loved to do clicky things like leave others out of their circle, gossip, etc. God help you if they decided YOU weren't worthy of their presence. They'd make life miserable for you.

A lot of nurses, even those who are older in years, need to get a grip and GROW UP.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jun 30, 2009

to: strongwilled, regarding your post # 76
it sounds like the issues of the new lpn can be mitigated somewhat by kindness. see what you can do about showing concern about her pregnancy, offering to lift items that weigh more than 10 pounds, for her. if you get everyone to do that, she'll feel more included and cared about, and her attitude may soften toward others.
the fact that she forgot that the med she referred to as missed, could be due to her baby having kicked her, at the time the information about it being ordered less than 10 min. before was said in report. that's pretty distracting. cut her some slack and she may return the favor. model the behavior you want for her. miracles do happen......
i hope the nurses give her a baby shower! remember the old honey rather than vinegar theory (as well as turning the other cheek).

i'm not sure if you're actually at the bedside, but pregnancy is not a disability. most busy units and busy floors do not have the staffing these days to allow someone to follow a nasty, mean-spirited lpn around to volunteer to do her lifting for her in the hopes that she will then feel cared about and soften her attitude toward others. and perhaps her baby kicking her would make her forget the med -- but that doesn't account for her "writing up" the missed med as a tragedy of epic proportions.