LATERAL Violence. How Nurses treat Nurses!

MedSurgeMess · Jun 30, 2009

To: strongwilled, regarding your post # 76
It sounds like the issues of the new LPN can be mitigated somewhat by kindness. See what you can do about showing concern about her pregnancy, offering to lift items that weigh more than 10 pounds, for her. If you get everyone to do that, she'll feel more included and cared about, and her attitude may soften toward others.
The fact that she forgot that the med she referred to as missed, could be due to her baby having kicked her, at the time the information about it being ordered less than 10 min. before was said in report. That's pretty distracting. Cut her some slack and she may return the favor. Model the behavior you want for her. Miracles do happen......
I hope the nurses give her a baby shower! Remember the old honey rather than vinegar theory (as well as turning the other cheek).

Actually, she refuses to lift, or do anything but sit at desk and tell others what call light is going off, which is odd that she expects to not have to work as 3 or 4 others on that shift are pregnant as well. She was given a shower and actually made derogatory comments about the gifts to the givers faces....Her aunt is our unit secretary, and says that she gets this attitude of "better than everyone else" from her mom, who acts the same way. If this was something just related to pregnancy, I could get over it, but she has acted this way to rest of staff since day 1, and others who have known her all her life says this is typical behavior, just no one has ever stood up to her before. Again, not normal for me to act this way, but my dept director says perhaps this will nip her attitude in the bud at work....

MedSurgeMess · Jun 30, 2009

i'm not sure if you're actually at the bedside, but pregnancy is not a disability. most busy units and busy floors do not have the staffing these days to allow someone to follow a nasty, mean-spirited lpn around to volunteer to do her lifting for her in the hopes that she will then feel cared about and soften her attitude toward others. and perhaps her baby kicking her would make her forget the med -- but that doesn't account for her "writing up" the missed med as a tragedy of epic proportions.

this is exactly the case, we're a busy med surg unit, with others at various stages of pregnancy who work their buns off while she sits around and demands to be catered to according to other night shifters.

RN1982 · Jun 30, 2009

she had it coming.

metal_m0nk, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2009

Heh...

If I were a director in the situation described above and staffing could accommodate, I'd axe the whole lot of 'em for failing to maintain professionalism.

It's easy to pass judgment and act out of malice in the workplace when your think you can get away with it. Or because you have seniority...But everyone makes a mistake at one time or another and when they do, those who were so damning of others often hope like hell those people don't return the favor.

Sooner or later, everyone pays consequences for their actions. Better not to burn your bridges while you're standing on them...

morte, LPN, LVN · Jun 30, 2009

actually i think the LPN is the one guilty of lateral violence....geesh, to the point of lying! (the false report) frankly i think that should have gotten her fired!

back2thebooks · Jul 4, 2009

To: strongwilled, regarding your post # 76
It sounds like the issues of the new LPN can be mitigated somewhat by kindness. See what you can do about showing concern about her pregnancy, offering to lift items that weigh more than 10 pounds, for her. If you get everyone to do that, she'll feel more included and cared about, and her attitude may soften toward others.
The fact that she forgot that the med she referred to as missed, could be due to her baby having kicked her, at the time the information about it being ordered less than 10 min. before was said in report. That's pretty distracting. Cut her some slack and she may return the favor. Model the behavior you want for her. Miracles do happen......
I hope the nurses give her a baby shower! Remember the old honey rather than vinegar theory (as well as turning the other cheek).

Huh? I'm sorry, but I have been pregnant with 2 babies, one weighing over 10 lbs and one at 11 lbs at birth and each 22 inches in length. Even at that size, when I was 'kicked', it didn't jar me so much as to make me forget things or lose my train of thought mid-sentence. I think this is far-fetched.

I do agree with the honey vs. vinegar theory and I do believe in killing them with kindness, but to say that being pregnant warrants special treatment (aside from what is physically too demanding) is too much.

Relating to the original post---I have found that a direct approach to immature behavior (such as gossip, bullying, etc.) has worked best. Any time I feel like I have been spoken to in an inappropriate manner, for example, I keep eye contact and say something like "I'm sorry, what?" If they repeat what they said, I continue to say "Please do not speak to me in that way." Simple, direct and polite.

Mahage, LPN · Jul 4, 2009

I actually committed an act of "violence" against one of my coworkers the other day, but considering the scenario, and thanks from many coworkers, I think it was justified--if lateral violence can ever be called justified. I will add that I am usually very direct, but my coworkers know that I'm not mean spirited, but I am honest, and they do appreciate that.
A LPN on our unit with so what.......
The other day, she wrote up the RN that I was precepting--her last day of being precepted--for not giving a med. But I guess that she forgot that in report that we told her and her partner that pharmacy hadn't brought said med yet because order just written 10 min before shift change. She told my preceptee, "are you totally dumb, I mean, I'm smart enough to give a med." I mentioned that we had told her that in report, and she said, "too late, I already wrote her up, maybe she'll learn a lesson." I told her to calm her tone, and she just rolled her eyes and left. Next thing I know, house supervisor is asking my partner what the deal is, because apparently this nitwit from the previous shift called her on the way out, mentioned the incident report and write up, making it sound like the preceptee had all but murdered the patient. After investigating and talking to pharmacy and getting the whole story, she wrote up the LPN for writing false report and told me to write her up for attitude. When she came in that night, I let her know that she had been written up and what for. She starts yelling in the nurses station "you can't do this to me, I'm preg-" which I cut her off with "yes I can, and yes I did, and BTW, if I ever hear of you talking to ANY coworker in a condescending tone, I will write you up again" in a loud enough voice for everyone to hear. I heard from night shift that all night, she just continued on about how mean I was to her. A couple of them even thanked me, thinking that she might just cut out writing everyone up now that she knows how it feels....I really don't like getting this "mean" with someone, just got tired of hearing how she acts towards everyone and gloats about it.....I hope that I don't have to do so again for awhile.

Oh NO! This is definately NOT lateral violence on your part. The pregnant LPN was totally out of line. Her behavior was a very clear example of the carnivorous behavior which is so damaging to the professional developement of the new hire and the moral of the enitre unit. You acted in an extrememly appropriate manner. Thank you so much on be half of all NEW and fairly new nurses. Your unit is very lucky to have you and with any luck maybe the offender will learn something too!

Mahage

Mahage, LPN · Jul 4, 2009

To: strongwilled, regarding your post # 76
It sounds like the issues of the new LPN can be mitigated somewhat by kindness. See what you can do about showing concern about her pregnancy, offering to lift items that weigh more than 10 pounds, for her. If you get everyone to do that, she'll feel more included and cared about, and her attitude may soften toward others.
The fact that she forgot that the med she referred to as missed, could be due to her baby having kicked her, at the time the information about it being ordered less than 10 min. before was said in report. That's pretty distracting. Cut her some slack and she may return the favor. Model the behavior you want for her. Miracles do happen......
I hope the nurses give her a baby shower! Remember the old honey rather than vinegar theory (as well as turning the other cheek).

Lamaze, I think maybe you misread the post. Please read it again.

Mahage

eclecticlife · Jul 6, 2009

I am currently a nursing student who has been the victim of lateral bullying not only from RNs on clinical floors but frankly from some RN instructors (I don't care what anyone says humiliation, and bullying are not now and have never been, effective teaching tools.) Bullying is a very real problem in nursing and it is one of the reasons that so many people who get through nursing school leave the profession!

And maybe that's the key here. Nursing is a profession that struggles with image. We (well, I will be eventually) are highly skilled technicians, we are also friends mothers, lovers and people. We are expected to be able to hang an IV, give a med, listen to our patient's fears, act as confessor for some and assure families all while being belittled by doctors, techs, and each other!

Time for a change at some really fundamental levels I think. I have never 'asked' to be bullied either by lacking back bone, or by sending out a 'vibe' but I have been. I have been patient when these situations arise and often do try to think about why some one is behaving a certain way, but when it is a repeated pattern I have to acknowledge this is about them. Its about power and self esteem and all the rest of the motivations, BUT it has no place in a professional environment!

As long as we worry about whether psychological abuse, abuse of power and threats are really 'violence', lateral or any other kind, we don't have to acknowledge the greater issue. Its wrong! Simply wrong and none of us should accept it.

We have a nursing shortage, we have a image problem and we should be paid more, with greater managerial support and on and on... and we will be expected to contemplate all this while juggling IVs, meds, pts and our own lives... don't we have enough to deal with?

Don't like having a student take one of your patient's? Them discuss it with the instructor or your manager... I am a student I don't make the assignments! Don't like your co-worker... then use those critical thinking skills and acknowledge that this is work, and all interpersonal problems should be handled in a professional manner, not by resorting to the sort of behavior most primary schools have a zero tolerance policey for!

Nurses are incredible. Nurses are skilled, dedicated and well educated people (I know I am making sweeping generalizations here) but we need to stop ******** at each other and start making some real progress in cleaning up our acts. Because if we do not respect ourselves and each other them why should anyone else, like doctors, patients, the general public, policy makers or even those who write our contracts.

Fairemaid · Sep 5, 2009

As someone who has always been the target of bullies initially, I would say it usually is my own fault because I will not stoop to their level:wink2: I left my original unit because of a very mean day shift charge RN, but I was new grad and at that time I didn't have the snappy replies down pat. Unfortunately, on my current floor there is a night charge RN who truly takes the cake.:bdck:

This nurse spends the entire night running around the unit, making mountains out of molehills, she never takes a new admit, takes the smallest assignment, tells the one CNA that they'll only be on one side, not both, then when they've done all the pt's up, she'll move them to the other side. She forces the other nurses to help her pass meds in the am, and usually clocks out 1 hr OT. One of the night nurses got an emergency call on her cell phone and charge RN wrote her up for talking on her cell phone in the nurses station. She used to make walking rounds into INTERROGATION. I recenty had my evaluation and I has some points taken off because "You left things out of shift report, one of the night nurses complained." I am on good terms with all of the overnight nurses, and none of them had any complaints. I work 3-11 and have been a nurse for 4 years, I am sure you guys can relate, able to give report in my sleep.

I am not sure how much my manager understands about the true dynamics of the floor on that shift, I'm pretty sure she has heard a lot of different people complain, on my old floor the manager was either unable to fix the problem or in denial.

I am tired of running away, I am planning to talk with my manager about it.

Rebecca

PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN · Sep 6, 2009

This will be short and I am not only speaking as a nurse, but as a mom. This won't be your last problem in your life. You are young and will have to learn that stress is inevitable. Know it, embrace it, deal with it, move on.

As far as letting people down, oh well.... Nobody died. You know better for next time--don't do it again. But get over it.

Life us tough, but your perspective will change as you mature. You will be fine. Take your vitamins, eat well and get rest. Spend time with hubby --go have fun.....

Jo

eclecticlife · Sep 6, 2009

This will be short and I am not only speaking as a nurse, but as a mom. This won't be your last problem in your life. You are young and will have to learn that stress is inevitable. Know it, embrace it, deal with it, move on.
As far as letting people down, oh well.... Nobody died. You know better for next time--don't do it again. But get over it.
Life us tough, but your perspective will change as you mature. You will be fine. Take your vitamins, eat well and get rest. Spend time with hubby --go have fun.....
Jo

I think all that you have to say is true, but I would also say that as long as everyone sees bullying and verbal aggression and violence as acceptable, survivable and even rather minor then nothing will change. This is violence and until nurses are prepared to face their own dirty laundry nothing will change.

Sexist comments and racist jokes used to be acceptable too. Women (and I saw women because nursing is still heavily a female oriented profession) need to grow up. This isn't high school... or any other school. This is our job, our profession and at the end of the day its also a significant part of how we are viewed as a profession.

Bullying is immature, it is petty but it is also extremely damaging and it is and should be unacceptable to everyone. It contributes to a poor work environment, to the stress in an already stressful job and to the numbers of talented people who leave our profession, some within the first year of graduation.

I don't know when verbal intimidation was ever considered a valid means of education, or communication. But it is no longer considered an acceptable part of even high school so I think nurses need to get over themselves!

I am joining this profession and intend to build a lasting career, and part of that for me is to state I will not tolerate verbal intimidation and or even passive aggression as an acceptable part of my work environment, I wonder how much different nursing could be if everyone were prepared to take the same stand.

Bullying demeans everyone and it is not normal or healthy and yet it is so prevalent in nursing that it has its own title within the nursing profession. I for one will continue to strive to make it an ugly chapter in the history of nursing because its not now nor should ever be so prevalent that it has its own studies, strategies or even threads on an all nursing message board.