I posted this on the career advice page, but there doesn't seem to be much traffic over there. Sorry if this is long, want to give the whole story. I'm a fairly new RN I graduated in the summer of '07, so I have a year and a half of experience. After school I worked as an RN on a cardiac/tele floor sometimes being pulled to CCU/ICU. A lot of the time I was the charge nurse on the floor and in charge of the rest of the RNs, LPNs, CNAs and the rest of the staff. I was on the code/rapid response team and also trained new employees. I never had any issues at this job, never any verbal or written warnings.
My husband had a job transfer so I had to quit and got a new job as an ER nurse and have worked there for the past 6 months until I was fired last week. The ER I worked in was very busy and usually understaffed (where isn't?). The night of the "incident". Four hours into my shift I got pulled to take a group of 5 patients from a nurse who was getting off for the night. It was a very high acuity group and she was in a very bad mood and gave me a crappy report before leaving.
I had a homeless TB patient who would curse at me every time I went in his room and he wouldn't let me touch him, let alone start the needed IV or take vital signs. He refused to stay in his room and would not wear a mask when he left his isolation room even after multiple call to security to come get him back in his room. My next patient was a quadriplegic who could TALK and not let me out of the room and wanted IV pain/anxiety/nausea meds every 30 minutes. I had a patient who needed admitted to ICU and was on a drip for his blood pressure that required me to be in the room titrating it every 15 minutes, plus he was wanting to sign out AMA, so the Dr, my supervisor for the shift, and I were in his room multiple times trying to get him to stay as he was obviously at high risk for a brain bleed because his pressure was so high. I got a new patient from the waiting room right when i got there who had abdominal pain. We also had no tech, so I was doing the job of 2 people.
OK, here is the story of my 5th patient and the one with the incident that got me fired. She had already arrived by EMS before I took the group from the previous nurse. As I was getting report from her the charge nurse from day shift was in the room triaging her and getting her settled. When she finished she never came to give me report on the patient and put the entire chart over with the Dr, so I didn't even have anything to read about the patient. All I knew was she was having lady partsl bleeding. I left the floor to take one of my patients up stairs to their room and while I was gone she was seen by the Dr and her husband came out complaining that I had not come in after the Dr to start the IV and such. So, the charge nurse (a new one as it was change of shifts) went in and started the IV and whatever other orders for me while I was upstairs. When I got back downstairs she told me that she had got her IV started for me and she should be settled for awhile. I asked her what was going on w/ the patient as I had not gotten any report on her. She said "She's pregnant, lady partsl bleeding, they brought in a container with what she had passed at home, but I didn't look in it, it's sitting in the room." When I went in there was a container inside of a grocery bag sitting on top of the linnen cart that I left there for the Dr to look at.
So, a few minutes later the husband came out and wanted me to check the patient as she felt like she was bleeding a lot. I went in and she had several disposable pads under her, they were relatively clean and I told them she wasn't bleeding to heavily and the pad was still clean. The family asked me a few questions that I answered for them. I had no problems with the family, they were friendly and never complained to me about anything. After getting an U/S and a couple of bags of fluids she was being discharged. I went in, unhooked her IV. The bag still had about 200cc in it, so I draped it over the edge of the sink to drain. She had her bloody panties and shorts in the sink, but on the other side away from where the fluids were draining. I was planning to get her a bag to take them home in as soon as I finished up getting her discharge vital signs and taking out her IV. Well, her pulse was in the 130's, so I told them I would go discuss it with the Dr and be back. Well, to make it short she ended up staying and was waiting to be admitted because they were thinking she had an infection somewhere because her WBC were slightly high and all of the fluids hadn't brought her pulse down. I hooked her to the monitor where we watched her pulse at times hit 160's.
So, at 3AM it was time for me to go home and I gave report to the LPN who was taking over her care. As I was finishing report the husband came out and asked me if I would clean her up again. I told him sure and I would be right in to do it before I went home as soon as I finished up giving report. Well, I ended up getting a phone call about my ICU patient and getting totally detracted with him and forgot to go back in there before I left. So, the husband wrote a letter saying I had no compassion or their loss (she did miscarry), which I feel is totally not true as I spent time in the room talking to them and answering questions about what to expect and such. AND said that the fetus was in the sink and that I placed trash on top of it and left it laying in the sink. If there was a fetus anywhere in that sink her clothes were piled on top of it. The family never said ANYTHING to me about them thinking the fetus was in the sink, neither did the prior charge nurses who had triaged her and provided her care. Nor did they bother to remove it from the sink if they new it was there.
So, I got fired for not properly disposing of a fetus that I knew nothing about. She was not very far along, so it's not like she gave birth to a full term baby that I didn't see. She was only a few weeks along. It just makes me so upset that they think I would leave a fetus in the sink if I knew that it was there. I never thought I would be fired over a patient who I had good rapport with complaining about me. I just figured it would be one of those patients from he** who you can't do anything right with. I consider myself a good nurse, I care deeply for my patients, sometimes crying along side them when they're scared and get bad news. I worked my butt off for that place, usually getting no break longer than to go pee a couple of times even though I'm pregnant. I've gone 15 hours with out eating while pregnant trying to take good care of my patients.
I have had one written warning for not having my charting quite up to par. That night I had a overdose/drunk patient who had already fallen once before EMS even left the bedside along with her drunk boyfriend. Another night that there was no tech or secretary. I called the charge nurse to please come help me, she told me there was nobody to help and hung up on me. But then proceeded to write me up when she had to come take over my patients and not everything was done. She would also be one of the charge nurses who took care of my miscarriage patient. So, I know she didn't speak up to cover my butt.
I'm just curious how I explain all of this in an interview and on resumes. All of the hospitals I am applying to have me fill out an application on line and all want an explanation of why you left each job. I am going to send a grievance to HR to try to get the termination off of my record and possibly a chance to go back to work there until I can fin something else. I have no desire to go back there as I now see how stressed I was and that I haven't even been sleeping because I'm constantly waking myself up talking in my sleep because I'm dreaming I'm still at work! Any advice is appreciated. My biggest concern is how to quickly describe this with out lying on the application so I stand a chance at getting an interview.
I'm a student...but isn't there something along the lines of that the patient is not yours until you have received report? Or is it different for the ER?
You can leave that section blank if you want to express it at the interview.
I would probably keep the explanation to an interviewer short, such as, "I'm sure you know how chaotic an ER can be on a busy day/night. I received a patient but never received the report from the nursing coming off of shift. Apparently the patient had a miscarriage, the fetus was in the sink, and the patient's undergarments were piled on top of it. I disposed of an IV and other items to be rinsed for the trash, and had no idea the fetus was in the sink. I was terminated based on a written complaint to the hospital and I regret that I did not have the opportunity to express to the father nor his wife, that I had no idea the fetus was in the sink and the opportunity to properly place the remains prior to anything else going in the sink."
That is honest. The hospital wanted a scapegoat and a bad set of circumstances fell on you.
I'm not a nurse, but I've been in this woman's shoes as a patient, (a bit further along when it happened to me, unfortunately.) It's statements like these - coming from a pregnant nurse, worse yet - which can minimize and disregard someone's loss. What you may have felt wasn't really a baby was very real to the parents who lost the child.
I agree with the poster who suggested to let this story rest and not try to retell it to defend yourself to a prospective employer. After all, you never know who you're talking to; if you told this story to me, for example, I wouldn't feel kindly toward the comment above justifying yourself, particularly when you've mentioned the family wrote a letter describing a lack of compassion toward their loss.
I'd write a short list of former coworkers, managers, and peers who I can count on for a recommendation and go from there.
Best,
Southern
I'm sorry for your loss Southern but you did misread the OP. What she said was it's not like it was a full term baby that I didn't notice. That statement does not at all imply that the baby was not real. See the difference between "not a full term baby" as opposed to "not really a baby."
The family lashed out a single nurse when the whole system broke down from the moment the container was set down in that sink. The hospital should have reviewed the whole thing from start to finish, instead they picked the last person in the line and blamed them. Thats absurd.
This could happen to anyone regardless of how compassionate they are percieved to be or not this happens all the time to nurses and we are foolish to allow it to happen repeatedly...the next nurse may be you, or me, or anyone else on this board.
First of all, you seem like a competent nurse who just got crapped on. That's a sorry reason to fire someone- you did what you were supposed to do. ABC's and prioritize your patients.
But I have to address this part:
She was not very far along, so it's not like she gave birth to a full term baby that I didn't see. She was only a few weeks along.
I posted "the emergency nurses guide to pregnancy loss in the emergency dept" in the ER forum a few weeks ago. As a mother, a nurse, and someone who has had a pregnancy loss, this is important. We all know you have to prioritize, and as I said, it sounds like you got crapped on big time. In an ideal situation, I think we all know you would have been able to spend even more time in there. Not matter how much tissue there was, this was her baby she is grieving.
Let me clarify: The products were in a container in the sink, under her clothes? I had to go back and read it again- it wasn't accidently thrown away, tossed around, etc... It just sat there. If that's the case, the firing is BS!
Yes, from what I was told in the meeting w/ my supervisor it was in a grocery bag that the family brought it in. In the sink, under her clothes. No, I did not dispose of it, I didn't even know it was there until I was brought in to be reprimanded for it. The patient was still there when I left as she was waiting for admission orders and a room up stairs. I asked if the next nurse found it when she moved the patient up stairs, but they would answer no questions about it, said it was all confidential. I also asked if the charge nurses who were also in the room got into trouble for also leaving it there, but that is confidential also.
I'm sorry for your loss Southern but you did misread the OP. What she said was it's not like it was a full term baby that I didn't notice. That statement does not at all imply that the baby was not real. See the difference between "not a full term baby" as opposed to "not really a baby."
The family lashed out a single nurse when the whole system broke down from the moment the container was set down in that sink. The hospital should have reviewed the whole thing from start to finish, instead they picked the last person in the line and blamed them. Thats absurd.
This could happen to anyone regardless of how compassionate they are percieved to be or not this happens all the time to nurses and we are foolish to allow it to happen repeatedly...the next nurse may be you, or me, or anyone else on this board.
Apologies if it's felt that I misinterpreted, but someone going through a miscarriage feeling put off or ignored by a pregnant nurse may have felt slighted just because she 'was only a few weeks along', as OP stated. OP has indicated that is not how she feels, but who knows how it came across to the couple? Badly, I'd imagine, since they wrote a letter of complaint. There are always two sides, and good intentions don't always make an unpleasant experience pleasant, sadly enough.
I've already seen the realities of overwhelming ratios, mandatory overtime, lack of co-worker support, and the prevalence of the customer service initiative prized over appropriate nursing care. I think the system broke down well before the OP got tied up giving report and left without checking in one last time; the simple fact a pregnant nurse was assigned a miscarrying patient was quite insensitive, IMO.
That being said, I'm not quite sure, even upon rereading, what happened to the bag, (which was on the linen cart, then in the sink under her clothing?), that the family couldn't claim it and instead thought trash was piled on it? It doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I'm not understanding.
I do think that the....remains...(for lack of a better term) and the clothes one was wearing should be treated with sensitivity, and I'm not sure someone who hasn't miscarried a wanted child can understand how strange and confusing the feelings related to the evidence of the pregnancy can be. My clothing was packed in a bag for me to take on discharge, but I found I couldn't even look at it...
yet, I didn't want to throw it away either. If it makes any sense, it felt almost like it was the only evidence of the pregnancy being real, and to throw it away meant that it was really over. I asked DH to throw the bag away when I was at work because I couldn't stand to hold onto the grief.
Point being: I'm not sure there is a way to argue this to a potential employer without it sounding insensitive or like a justification for being too busy to provide what this patient needed. JMO.
I defer to my original statement to gather recommendations and list people who will give a solid reference.
Just to point out, I never said ANYTHING to the patient about her only being a few weeks along. I told that here as part of explaining that the fetus was not very big, so easy to miss when covered by clothing.
I'm so sorry you were obviously railroaded. My worst "customer complaint" was from someone I'd had a great rapport with (or so I thought). Now, I document every time I enter the patient's room, and document that I asked them if I could assist them with anything. Very sad I have to do that.
But, anyway, I digress. I would just apply and not even mention being fired. I personally wouldn't tell the story to employers. I'd be vague.
I'm not a nurse, but I've been in this woman's shoes as a patient, (a bit further along when it happened to me, unfortunately.) It's statements like these - coming from a pregnant nurse, worse yet - which can minimize and disregard someone's loss. What you may have felt wasn't really a baby was very real to the parents who lost the child.
I agree with the poster who suggested to let this story rest and not try to retell it to defend yourself to a prospective employer. After all, you never know who you're talking to; if you told this story to me, for example, I wouldn't feel kindly toward the comment above justifying yourself, particularly when you've mentioned the family wrote a letter describing a lack of compassion toward their loss.
I'd write a short list of former coworkers, managers, and peers who I can count on for a recommendation and go from there.
Best,
Southern
I must admit that the comment about how far along she was struck a nerve with me also...I gave it a benefit if doubt however, assuming that you were referring to the fact that you may not have realized that the bloody clothes contained the fetus....it would not have been obvious, like it would have been if she was farther along. I just feel so bad that this even happened!!
I'm sorry you got fired, that must be difficult for you. I really can't fathom how you could be fired over one customer complaint. Don't beat yourself up over it. It sounds like management did you favor with not having to deal with them anymore.
But on to the resume and interview question. From reading your first post it seems that you would regard putting down anything less than "terminated" on your application as a lie. The world is hardly so binary. HR might say, "Terminated: Left child's remains in sink" while I would say "Incompetent morons promoted to management, spends too much time with customer surveys and not enough time with patients. Left to purse other goals." So the real truth in why you don't work there anymore is open to interpretation depending on your perspective. So where do you go from there?
I as in a similar situation before. I was fired and didn't know where to go. Here's what I figured out.
1. Information Gathering: Find out what the hospital is going to say about you. This will help alleviate your anxiety and give you good direction on what to do next. Have a good friend call the hospital HR as an employer, and see what information your friend can get. I mowed my friends yard for $10, so she was my employer. Most likely, HR won't disclose anything without a written authorization. Fill one of those out and fax it in to see what comes back.
Possible outcomes:
A. Most Likely: Nothing, they won't say anything at all. From an HR perspective, you don't work there anymore, so they don't want to spend any time/money on you (IE getting you a new job).
B. Less Likely: They call/fax back saying you worked there, giving dates, and your title.
C. Least Likely: They call/fax back saying you worked there, giving dates, your title, and that you're not eligible for rehire.
D. Extremely Not Likely: They call/fax back saying you worked there, you were the most awful employee in the history of nursing. You spent most of your time digging in the sharps containers for used morphine, frequently bit patients, possibly have rabies, and you kicked service animals on your lunch break.
In case A and B, it doesn't matter what you put on the application or say in the interview, because it can't be verified. Now, I'm advocating just making things up like saying your title was “The Empress of Taipei.”, but you can find some kind of middle ground for the “why I don't work there” reason. Focus on a reason that put you in the spotlight and not the employer. Career growth is a good one. Commute times. You can find some reason that's the truth.
Case C is the stinker. They are basically saying you were terminated without saying it. But again, its open to interpretation because the employer isn't going to verify it. So I'd simply tell a quick story about how I overlooked a hospital policy about biological waste cleanup. I was fired over it, and I took these steps to correct the problem.
Case D is the lottery. They lied, and as a result of that lie, they are damaging your income. You sue the hell out of them. If you end up winning $13 million, I demand a puppy.
BabyLady, BSN, RN
2,300 Posts
I'm a student...but isn't there something along the lines of that the patient is not yours until you have received report? Or is it different for the ER?
You can leave that section blank if you want to express it at the interview.
I would probably keep the explanation to an interviewer short, such as, "I'm sure you know how chaotic an ER can be on a busy day/night. I received a patient but never received the report from the nursing coming off of shift. Apparently the patient had a miscarriage, the fetus was in the sink, and the patient's undergarments were piled on top of it. I disposed of an IV and other items to be rinsed for the trash, and had no idea the fetus was in the sink. I was terminated based on a written complaint to the hospital and I regret that I did not have the opportunity to express to the father nor his wife, that I had no idea the fetus was in the sink and the opportunity to properly place the remains prior to anything else going in the sink."
That is honest. The hospital wanted a scapegoat and a bad set of circumstances fell on you.