First,I am new so Hello everyone. I graduated on May/09 with ADN, I am currently enrolled in BSN. Meanwhile I am actively looking for jobs here in NY. I got 3 interview so far and still waiting a response. Anyway, during my job hunting I noticed that , Nursing recruiter highly disregard ADN, one hospital I was told no longer the hospital accepts ADN, other hospital hired on the spot the girls with BSN, the other 4 of us with ADN were told we will get a call on the decesion. Dont get me wrong its very important to go higher on education, but Nursing is different, ADN holders are licenced RN's, if we are licenced that means we are qualified to work. So why make us take NCLEX just to be turn away ? Why give us the title RN, then tell us we are not good enough? Most manhattan hospitals did not even to accept my resume! Does everyone out there have my experience? I am highly furstrated ............. I think it should be illegal to turn away ADN, as long as we are professional registered nurse? don't you all think so????
Well, it is means anything, barely any of the BSN (or ADN nurses for that matter) are getting ANY jobs around here. It doesn't matter what you have, we are equally being rejected...
I got my ASN, took the RN exam, then went back a year later for my BSN. I can say that I got no more clinical time in my ASN than I would have gotten had I gone right for the BSN. I looked at the clinical requirements for the BSN programs for several schools before I chose to get the ASN. I chose to get the ASN first because I needed to work as soon as possible. When I went on to the BSN, I had more clinical.
Although I understand that we all take the same exam, I will say that I feel better prepared as an RN with the BSN under my belt. There were more in depth pathology courses, more in depth nursing advocacy courses, and more research based courses which taught me how to evaluate information I'm reading and how to find that information. And many studies now show that BSN trained nurses have better patient outcomes than ASN trained nurses.
The hospitals and nursing homes around here will hire ASN trained nurses, but there is an increasing emphasis to have them get further education, especially younger in their career nurses. Most hospitals won't hire LPNs anymore either, except for outpatient clinics. While ASN and BSN trained nurses take the same exam, all facilities have a right to set standards for hiring. When I looked at some places as an ASN, they didn't want me--now they're recruiting. They're choice.
None of this means you shouldn't get an ASN and take the NCLEX. My ASN program was rigorous and I learned a lot. I don't regret the ASN--I am proud of it and proud that I was one of the 35 out of 100 original students in my class who made it through the program in one try. I am proud that I passed the NCLEX on the first try. I think the key is to recognize that the ASN only my place limitations on some career directions and to look at further education down the road.
Nursing is such a stupid profession sometimes. We kick ourselves in the rear and make things more difficult for ourselves than we have too, all in the name of nursing trying to define itself as a autonomous profession. It's quite stupid. Why do we do our own history and med rec. when the MD does it at admission? Why do we add the added work when we don't need too. I hear of talk that some want the entrance level someday of be a MSN. You got to be kidding me. It's just like now they made it more challenging to get your NP because if you don't have it by 2012 you will need a PhD instead of a MSN. How ridiculous! If it's not broke than why fix it? This is all due to nurses who no longer work bedside nursing and sit there and have grand ideals and write papers on theories, but yet they probably forget the fundamentals of nursing such as hanging an IV. I'm in this RN to BSN program and I just feel like it's such a waist of time, always emphasizing on how BSN nurses have the capability to critically think. The real learning is when you hit the floor, because everything you've learned in school you quickly forget and all those damned theories go out the window. Nursing can truly be a stupid stupid profession that always makes things harder than it needs to be.
Nursing is such a stupid profession sometimes. We kick ourselves in the rear and make things more difficult for ourselves than we have too, all in the name of nursing trying to define itself as a autonomous profession. It's quite stupid. Why do we do our own history and med rec. when the MD does it at admission? Why do we add the added work when we don't need too. I hear of talk that some want the entrance level someday of be a MSN. You got to be kidding me. It's just like now they made it more challenging to get your NP because if you don't have it by 2012 you will need a PhD instead of a MSN. How ridiculous! If it's not broke than why fix it? This is all due to nurses who no longer work bedside nursing and sit there and have grand ideals and write papers on theories, but yet they probably forget the fundamentals of nursing such as hanging an IV. I'm in this RN to BSN program and I just feel like it's such a waist of time, always emphasizing on how BSN nurses have the capability to critically think. The real learning is when you hit the floor, because everything you've learned in school you quickly forget and all those damned theories go out the window. Nursing can truly be a stupid stupid profession that always makes things harder than it needs to be.
I agree! These debates only put divides in the nursing profession. I am a ADN and plan to get my BSN. I plan to because I feel like I need it to get anywhere with a job. Sad. I have looked at the course requirements and I do not see where being a BSN is anywhere more prepared then a ADN. I have way more clinical hours then any BSN program that I have seen (I have 1000 hours).
I kinda of wish that there was one platform for nurses to start their careers from.
i have had my bsn for over 4 years now. i have applied for a head nurse position and a nurse manager position with a company whom i have been employed with for over 13 yrs. this company also paid for my bsn degree. i was passed over both times by a nurse with an adn degree. the reason given to me was that the other person was older and had been with the company longer. many times i feel like administration want to make it look like they want nurses with higher degrees in higher positions, but really it doesn't make any difference. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't change having my degree, and maybe one day it will pay off. but as of right now, i am still on night shift, without any hopes of going to days. my only hope is that one day i will become a familiar face to the administrative staff. that in my opinion is the only way to move up in a company.
First,I am new so Hello everyone. I graduated on May/09 with ADN, I am currently enrolled in BSN. Meanwhile I am actively looking for jobs here in NY. I got 3 interview so far and still waiting a response. Anyway, during my job hunting I noticed that , Nursing recruiter highly disregard ADN, one hospital I was told no longer the hospital accepts ADN, other hospital hired on the spot the girls with BSN, the other 4 of us with ADN were told we will get a call on the decesion. Dont get me wrong its very important to go higher on education, but Nursing is different, ADN holders are licenced RN's, if we are licenced that means we are qualified to work. So why make us take NCLEX just to be turn away ? Why give us the title RN, then tell us we are not good enough? Most manhattan hospitals did not even to accept my resume! Does everyone out there have my experience? I am highly furstrated ............. I think it should be illegal to turn away ADN, as long as we are professional registered nurse? don't you all think so????
No, it shouldn't be illegal. That's just silly.
Frankly, I am very much so in favor of hospitals hiring BSN's over ASN's, and feel it's only a matter of time when the associate degree programs will become obsolete. This will be a very necessary step to overcome as nursing advances further as a learned profession.
Don't get me wrong, I know many very capable and excellent ADN's but they became excellent because they were driven to learn most of what makes them great on the job and over many years. For every one excellent ADN I could name 10 who are mediocre, sub-par and an embarrassment to the nursing profession - they do only what it takes to get through their shift without killing anyone and that's about it. ADN programs teach you how to pass the NCLEX.
There is so much more to nursing than the board exam: critical thinking, pathophysiology, delegation skills, theory applications, evidenced-based practice, pharmacology beyond memorizing drug names, etc...
We owe it to ourselves as future and current nurses to not accept the status quo and push ourselves into a higher standard of academic excellence.
I SAID people should be evaluated on more than just the degree they have. Meaning, they should take other things into consideration than just the person's degree. YES having a degree is necessary, BUT also evaluating other things should be done also.
Absolutely! That person with an MD from Harvard is the same as the Caribbean MD educated offshore. Degrees, certification initials and the reputation of your school are very important with getting your foot in the door. That's why colleges are expensive and hard to get into.
The other qualities you mention, btw, are important for keeping the job once your credentials have landed you the interview and position.
Specializes in ED, ICU, lifetime Diabetes Education.
Frankly, I am very much so in favor of hospitals hiring BSN's over ASN's, and feel it's only a matter of time when the associate degree programs will become obsolete. This will be a very necessary step to overcome as nursing advances further as a learned profession.
Don't get me wrong, I know many very capable and excellent ADN's but they became excellent because they were driven to learn most of what makes them great on the job and over many years. For every one excellent ADN I could name 10 who are mediocre, sub-par and an embarrassment to the nursing profession - they do only what it takes to get through their shift without killing anyone and that's about it. ADN programs teach you how to pass the NCLEX.
There is so much more to nursing than the board exam: critical thinking, pathophysiology, delegation skills, theory applications, evidenced-based practice, pharmacology beyond memorizing drug names, etc...
We owe it to ourselves as future and current nurses to not accept the status quo and push ourselves into a higher standard of academic excellence.
I'm going to be blunt here: What you said about ADN programs only teaching how to pass NCLEX is bull. I am sure that many of us could also say for every 1 excellent BSN there there are 10 who are mediocre. I don't know where you are getting information that ADN programs do not teach critical thinking, patho, delegation, etc. but you are wrong. I have learned these skills in my ADN program and am still learning them on the job just as the same as the BSN new grads are.
I whole heartedly believe that everyone (given their individual situations, opportunities and goals) should advance their education, whether they be a nurse, chef, accountant, etc. However to blatantly ASSume that ADNs are as conscientious, dilligent, and competent as BSNs is ludicrous! You basically said that by say the majority of ADNs are "mediocre, sub-par, and an embarrassment to the profession."
I apologize if I have offended anyone with my strong words, but I am not going to just sit back and let chicago878 insult me and my fellow ADN RNs (and RN-BSN-MSN) who have worked hard to get where we are. We all take the same NCLEX and have the title of "RN" and have the same scope of practice.
I'm going to be blunt here: What you said about ADN programs only teaching how to pass NCLEX is bullsh*t. I am sure that many of us could also say for every 1 excellent BSN there there are 10 who are mediocre. I don't know where you are getting information that ADN programs do not teach critical thinking, patho, delegation, etc. but you are wrong. I have learned these skills in my ADN program and am still learning them on the job just as the same as the BSN new grads are.
I whole heartedly believe that everyone (given their individual situations, opportunities and goals) should advance their education, whether they be a nurse, chef, accountant, etc. However to blatantly ASSume that ADNs are as conscientious, dilligent, and competent as BSNs is ludicrous! You basically said that by say the majority of ADNs are "mediocre, sub-par, and an embarrassment to the profession."
I apologize if I have offended anyone with my strong words, but I am not going to just sit back and let chicago878 insult me and my fellow ADN RNs (and RN-BSN-MSN) who have worked hard to get where we are. We all take the same NCLEX and have the title of "RN" and have the same scope of practice.
You're taking this argument too personally and appearing defensive which is not my intent. I think it's important we break down what it is you are suggesting.
(1) I am not making any assumptions about your individual capabilities as a nurse nor your ADN program. All schools are different and yours might very well be excellent but for the most part the biggest difference between the BSN and ADN track is the emphasis on critical thinking, assessment and advanced / specialty didactic elements. BSN trained nurses are in theory better prepared to work and react with in a complex clinical setting. If you disagree, please tell me what in your mind is the main difference between BSN and ADN programs.
(2) The ANA and many other research based hospital networks have been pushing for years for the BSN track to become the main entry for nurses into the practice and this is becoming evident with more and more hospitals now only hiring BSN new grads. In your defense of ADN nurses, why is this the case?
(3) As an MSN entry nurse, I too am working very hard at my degree and proud of my path to becoming the best nurse I can possibly be. I am particularly interested in management prospects so as such am very interested in your opinions as to why an associates degree provides the same level of academic training and rigor as a bachelors. My experience so far has shown many at the ADN to be very critical of me and my peers entering nursing and to be frank I think this is mostly out of fear that their degrees are becoming obsolete. Nursing has experienced dramatic growth in the past decade and let's be honest the advanced education of new nurses is only going to strengthen this for the new generation entering the field. Are you against this?
You're taking this argument too personally and appearing defensive which is not my intent. I think it's important we break down what it is you are suggesting.
(1) I am not making any assumptions about your individual capabilities as a nurse nor your ADN program. All schools are different and yours might very well be excellent but for the most part the biggest difference between the BSN and ADN track is the emphasis on critical thinking, assessment and advanced / specialty didactic elements. BSN trained nurses are in theory better prepared to work and react with in a complex clinical setting. If you disagree, please tell me what in your mind is the main difference between BSN and ADN programs.
(2) The ANA and many other research based hospital networks have been pushing for years for the BSN track to become the main entry for nurses into the practice and this is becoming evident with more and more hospitals now only hiring BSN new grads. In your defense of ADN nurses, why is this the case?
(3) As an MSN entry nurse, I too am working very hard at my degree and proud of my path to becoming the best nurse I can possibly be. I am particularly interested in management prospects so as such am very interested in your opinions as to why an associates degree provides the same level of academic training and rigor as a bachelors. My experience so far has shown many at the ADN to be very critical of me and my peers entering nursing and to be frank I think this is mostly out of fear that their degrees are becoming obsolete. Nursing has experienced dramatic growth in the past decade and let's be honest the advanced education of new nurses is only going to strengthen this for the new generation entering the field. Are you against this?
If you're interested in management, effective communication should be important to you, especially in the event that you end up managing a floor of ADN prepared nurses. You failed to effectively communicate anything other than arrogance in your first post and I'm not sure how you could expect your post to come across in any other way. I say this as someone who is pursuing a BSN because I believe this is the direction that nursing needs to go as a profession, because many hospitals in my area prefer BSNs, and because ultimately the degree will give me more opportunities.
You promote evidence-based research and then cite the completely unscientific "statistic" that "[f]or every one excellent ADN I could name 10 who are mediocre, sub-par and an embarrassment to the nursing profession - they do only what it takes to get through their shift without killing anyone and that's about it." You presumably know the difference between an anecdote and evidence, so don't go wagging your finger about evidenced-based practice after such an (intentionally) inflammatory anecdote.
If people find your post insulting, don't be so quick to assume the problem is in their interpretation. Something to consider- ADN nurses might be critical of you because your attitude toward them does not inspire respect.
As an MSN entry nurse, you will have two years of study? Probably less clinical experience because of your management courses? I worry about your ability to critically think and provide clinically appropriate client care.
I find with any degree plan that there are always some bad apples in the bunch. I am enrolled in an ADN program, I have two prior BAs. Why? Because they have the most clinical time available and after graduation, I will be spending more time with the patients than with books as well they have a program that fits my family's schedule.
I find some of my classmates lacking in polish, writing and communication skills. I'm certain all these skills will improve with practice. I am confident that all but one of my classmates will be safe, clinicaly competent nurses.
I would encourage you to look at program requirements for BSNs versus ADNs, look at coursework, clinical time and prerequisites. I think you may find the programs both have strengths and weaknesses.
I would also encourage you to evaluate the way that you are approaching those with ADNs. If it is in the same manner as your writing, they probably feel belittled and minimized by you. I certainly do. As you are very interested in management I would encourage you to research team building as I feel your MSN program has a teaching deficency there.
JenPen2332
40 Posts
Well, it is means anything, barely any of the BSN (or ADN nurses for that matter) are getting ANY jobs around here. It doesn't matter what you have, we are equally being rejected...