First,I am new so Hello everyone. I graduated on May/09 with ADN, I am currently enrolled in BSN. Meanwhile I am actively looking for jobs here in NY. I got 3 interview so far and still waiting a response. Anyway, during my job hunting I noticed that , Nursing recruiter highly disregard ADN, one hospital I was told no longer the hospital accepts ADN, other hospital hired on the spot the girls with BSN, the other 4 of us with ADN were told we will get a call on the decesion. Dont get me wrong its very important to go higher on education, but Nursing is different, ADN holders are licenced RN's, if we are licenced that means we are qualified to work. So why make us take NCLEX just to be turn away ? Why give us the title RN, then tell us we are not good enough? Most manhattan hospitals did not even to accept my resume! Does everyone out there have my experience? I am highly furstrated ............. I think it should be illegal to turn away ADN, as long as we are professional registered nurse? don't you all think so????
How many hours clinical did you get in your ADN? I got 900 hrs plus 300 extra credit hours with my BSN. Besides, clinical skills are easy to teach. My BSN was 6 semesters the ADN is only four...how could they possibly have more clinical than BSN?
I had 1000 clinical hours in residence in my ABSN (16 months), UNC has 819 in their traditional 4-year BSN, and a local community college has 728 in their ADN. A local diploma program has 675 clinical hours. I got all of this information from each school's handbook on their website.
I'm with you, Hearts. Where I'm from, 1000 > 675. And I have to admit - I was SURPRISED to find out that the diploma program had so few clinical hours compared to the other two programs, because I was always under the impression that diploma programs had so many more. I definitely learned something tonight.
I'll admit - when I'm the patient, I don't care what degree the nurse has as long as he/she knows what they're doing. But I have actually had pts point out the BSN on my ID badge and comment on it.
Sorry to all the ADN RNs - and I have been mentored by some of the best ADNs in the business - but at some point, if we expect to be 'taken seriously' - my guess is a BSN is going to have to become the entry level for the profession.
In years past, it was often very difficult if not impossible to transfer academic from a diploma program to BSN program. However, over the last decade or so there has been a major effort made to ease the transition and allow for the transfer of far more credits.
Diploma programs have been smart enough to realize that they could not survive if there graduates were unable to advance their educations beyond that initial diploma. And universities have been smart enough to realize that the students looking for BSN completion programs can be a source of revenue. They don't need the 10:1 student to faculty ratios for clinical classes because they already have RN licenses. They can take classes with lots of students in them which are cheaper for the school to provide. So ... by making the transfer of credits easier, everybody wins. And that is happened.
So, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be as long as your classes were taken at properly accredited programs.
The diploma program up the road from me now has an agreement with a local private school, and its graduates finish with an Associates in Health Science (NOT the same as an ADN) and leave with general studies credits in addition to their nursing credits. Makes perfect sense to me, or I doubt the program would have been able to survive.
Most of you suggest that BSN have more clinical hours, if I have to choose I will hire BSN, ..it looks god for the hospital and all. Well, I do understand!!!! But some of us can not go to BSN program right away, we have issues!!
But I do not understand is I am qualified to be a RN and given a licence to work us RN. If you are going to turn me down , because my ADN is not good enough for me, what the heck give me a Licence to practice.
I did not take the Nclex, get my licence to frame it, I did it so I can work, I did it so that my licence say I can practice!!! My licence is the same us BSN, we got it the same place!!!!!
I will get my BSN, even if it means taking 1 class at a time, but meanwhile I do not want to be treated as a second class citizen as if my licence if fake!!!
Most of you suggest that BSN have more clinical hours, if I have to choose I will hire BSN, ..it looks god for the hospital and all. Well, I do understand!!!! But some of us can not go to BSN program right away, we have issues!!
But I do not understand is I am qualified to be a RN and given a licence to work us RN. If you are going to turn me down , because my ADN is not good enough for me, what the heck give me a Licence to practice.
I did not take the Nclex, get my licence to frame it, I did it so I can work, I did it so that my licence say I can practice!!! My licence is the same us BSN, we got it the same place!!!!!
I will get my BSN, even if it means taking 1 class at a time, but meanwhile I do not want to be treated as a second class citizen as if my licence if fake!!!
I think you're still missing the point. No one is saying your license is fake and that you are not qualified to practice as a nurse. What people are saying is that a. the job market is tough right now, b. employers have a lot of new grads to choose from, so c. they have the luxury of being as selective as they want to be.
Employers aren't looking to be helpful to people who had to pick one path in to nursing over another or to validate your education. They are looking to hire the best nurses they can hire, and to some employers that means BSN prepared nurses. To some it means only experienced nurses right now.
It's the state board that licenses nurses. Employers pick which nurses they want to hire. Not being hired does not mean you're being treated like you have a fake license. It means that right now, you do not fit the employer's criteria. And that's all there is to it.
Most of you suggest that BSN have more clinical hours, if I have to choose I will hire BSN, ..it looks god for the hospital and all. Well, I do understand!!!! But some of us can not go to BSN program right away, we have issues!!
But I do not understand is I am qualified to be a RN and given a licence to work us RN. If you are going to turn me down , because my ADN is not good enough for me, what the heck give me a Licence to practice.
I did not take the Nclex, get my licence to frame it, I did it so I can work, I did it so that my licence say I can practice!!! My licence is the same us BSN, we got it the same place!!!!!
I will get my BSN, even if it means taking 1 class at a time, but meanwhile I do not want to be treated as a second class citizen as if my licence if fake!!!
Whoa - I doubt anyone here is treating you as a "second class citizen". Half the time people don't even know what degree - if any, because a diploma is not a degree - their nurse has to start with. I empathize with your indignation, but no one's saying anything in a deliberate attempt to offend you.
We didn't get our license in the same place - none of us did unless we went to the same school - and it doesn't matter where we completed school, only that we completed it. The poster just ahead of me is right - right now, it's an employer's market, so to speak, and they are just more likely to hire a BSN right now in certain areas, unless - and I'm guessing here - you have several years' experience, because no amount of education will substitute for that experience and hospitals do know that.
No one is implying that an ADN is any less a nurse, or that your degree is worth any less than those of us who have a BSN. Everyone, regardless of profession or line of work, is having this problem right now - there are college grads with BS degrees who are not getting hired in other professions because there's someone else who applied with an MS. Does that make the BS worth any less? No - it just means they aren't what the employer wants right now.
As for the whole clinical hours thing, I was shocked when I started doing some poking around and found out the BSNs actually had more hours - I figured nursing courses were nursing courses...I know that the state boards (I think it's them, anyway) and the accreditation councils for the various schools and colleges of nursing say you have to complete a minimum number of hours, so my assumption was that the BSN programs, with all the other stuff you have to take, were probably closer to this unknown minimum, and it would appear that I - along with many others - was way wrong.
And know what? Other than for the shock value, it doesn't matter a whit.
As for the hiring, we all have to be patient. Pretty easy for those of us to say who have jobs, I know, but I promise this, too, shall pass. Give the economy time. It took years for us to get in this mess, and it will take years to get out. Poor consolation, I know - but, heck, it seems any of us could be out on the street tomorrow, or at the very least could end up the sole breadwinner (scary as you-know-what on my salary), so even those of us with jobs are holding our breaths.
Oh! NO! no one offended me here! In fact this a nice theraputic chat!!! Anyway, we get our licence form a board of Nursing education , not the school that's what I meant. And I understand the econmoy terrible, but I feel terrible because when I apply for a job, its says its BSN preferred and I know its just a trick work, it's just means No ADN's. I went to a lot of hospitals in person then were told the hospital does not hire ADN. Its just the whole thing is misleading!!!! Anyway, I do what I can do.. wait till it gets better!! Thank you all
Oh! NO! no one offended me here! In fact this a nice theraputic chat!!! Anyway, we get our licence form a board of Nursing education , not the school that's what I meant. And I understand the econmoy terrible, but I feel terrible because when I apply for a job, its says its BSN preferred and I know its just a trick work, it's just means No ADN's. I went to a lot of hospitals in person then were told the hospital does not hire ADN. Its just the whole thing is misleading!!!! Anyway, I do what I can do.. wait till it gets better!! Thank you all
I had a feeling you were only venting...sometimes we all need to do that. But I admire your reply nonetheless, and your willingness to not be offended by all the stuff flying around on the thread... :) 'Cause I'll tell you - it can fly on allnurses sometimes!
Right now it sucks for everyone - those of us fortunate (and I literally thank God on my way to work every single shift) enough to have jobs are doing more with less, and those without - are without, plain and simple. At some point it is going to get better - we've weathered worse in this country, we just all have to stick together on this.
You probably do feel a bit offended by all the "BSN preferred" floating around - I think I would too - it's sort of like the situation even the new grad BSNs are in - "I did what you wanted and got a BSN, now you're telling me you want experience - how am I supposed to get experience when you won't hire me?!"...
Good luck in your search - we'll all get to where we're going eventually.
Thankyou so much for letting me Vent. I pray and hope it will get better for all us.Anyway, I started a thread because I wanted to know how much OBGYN office pays for RN's here in NY. Any idea how much office jobs pay for RN's???? I have interview coming up.....thanks again
You have to remember, in the employment realm, as well as the real world, "perception is reality." More education equates to more knowledge, and in many people's minds, better care. This may not truly be the case, but it is all about perception. Hospitals want to achieve magnet status. The debate continues to rage on whether health care is a "right" or a "privilege," but nevertheless, institutions (even non-profit) must make a profit to survive. Making a profit means getting business. Getting business means getting customers. Like it or not, health care is a business, and while managed care does play a part in consumer choice, it also must be pointed out that consumers DO many times have a "choice" in who will provide their care--and they will "choose" those who they "perceive" to provide the highest quality.
That is why I am considering getting my BSN since I already have a bachelor's. You should be able to find employment if everything stayed the same, but things seem to be changing drastically with our economy. And if/when you need to go back to school, your diploma credits very likely won't transfer for a BSN and you will have to start from scratch. Take a look at the curriculum for BSN nursing degrees at the universities where you might attend, talk with the advisors, and see for yourself. I have and have ruled out a diploma program for this reason.
Many universities have bridge programs and take from diploma and associate degree programs as a way to advance nurses. This should not be a reason to keep one from pursuing the diploma or associate degree. That being said, I started out as an ASN, followed up with my RN-BSN program, and am now in a MSN program. I have my own opinions on the degree situation, but this is not the time or place.....I do see more BSNs being offered jobs in my area though.
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Age1
24 Posts
man.. I need my BSN. hahaha