chicago878

Greetings. I don't post to this site all too often but feel strongly about adding insight into this conversation... First, we have a bit in common. I am a second career nurse, man, and also a "big guy." There is a LOT of opinion (albeit mostly from women) from this site on what it's like to be a "male nurse." Take any and all of it as you will. In my experience all of it is as you want to make it. Yes, you will be a minority and in some areas (peds, L&D, outpatient) a very stark minority. The bigger issue or challenge from my perspective is dealing with the vast generation gap and transition period in professional nursing. There are a lot of older women who still dominate the field and either simply can't or won't retire. There is a vast difference between how your peers and your seasoned colleagues interact and respond to your presence on the team. It's a fascinating time and I welcome the opportunity to be a change agent for the new generation of professional nurses. Second (and this is a far more important point) you have a LOT more to worry about than if you will be able find scrubs in your size. I agree with a few of the other posters and would seriously caution you against taking on more school and racking up yet even more student loan debt at this stage in your life. I mean in reality it wouldn't even be a second career as you haven't even practiced as an attorney - there is little benefit to your future in nursing to just having the degree as opposed to clocking at least 12 months in the field. The market stinks, sure, but "drinking the Kool-Aid" (watch your spelling) isn't a fair remark. Your colleagues working 60-100 hours a week are wisely participating in the law firm rat race because that's what they need to do to pay off their loan debt. You really should have done your research before committing to the legal profession. Being an associate sucks royally and is not in the least bit rewarding. That's why people leave (after paying off their debt) to pursue the rewarding aspects you mention which drew you initially to the field. Forget about worrying who's going to be home with the kids while you're working late every night as a first year associate, how on earth are you going to handle your family's own financial security if you will have loan payments for the next 20 years paying off TWO advance degrees while working as a nurse. My advice: bite the bullet and take ANY new grad law job you can get, put in the time you need to (1) pay off your law school debt and (2) build a nest egg for your next step, which might very well be nursing. If you do wind up getting this settled and embarking on the path to becoming a professional nurse, I strongly encourage you to look at a Masters (MSN) entry or at least accelerated Bachelors (BSN). The associate degree programs are a relic, waste of time and represent an albatross on the profession we really need to leave behind. There is no shortage in nursing, that's indeed a myth; there's a shortage of qualified applicants with advanced degrees. In reality, a lot of the new grads with difficulty landing that first job were either misled by the community colleges about the value of an associate's program and/or are dealing with poor academic/clinical performance and lack-luster networking skills. Sorry to be so harsh but I have a few friends who did just what you are suggesting (jumped straight from one expensive degree right into nursing school) and will probably never be able to pay off their loans, a debt which unlike credit cards and mortgages will follow you and your family FOREVER. Even though the cost of nursing school is likely far less than what you invested in law school (maybe) you have to consider the lost salary time you are walking away from by not using your JD, even if just for a brief period. Worrying about your career not being rewarding or if your scrubs are going to fit is nothing along the lines of how you are going to provide and ensure your family's own security.

Never apologise for expressing your opinion or personal experience. And I am sure you (another RN) were indeed very appreciative of the professional nurse who provided care for your family. I get by dealing with (very) difficult families by always remembering the Golden Rule (and also believing that some of karma has to exist).

(1) I am all about pursuing hospice (2) Need to jump in and correct the misnomer that hospice nurses might be better appreciated than other fields. Yes, dying people often don't complain about their nurse. Why would they - they're DYING and the nurse is helping alleviate their suffering so they have a dignified and comfortable end of life experience. Their families, however, are often NOT so appreciative and exhibit the many maladaptive coping mechanisms you should be able to recite from memory at this point. They can be combative, cruel, violent, withdrawn, drunk and all sorts of other unpleasant states associated with grief. Plus, they kind of get a free pass in the bad behavior department because Grandma is close to her deathbed. Just another perspective to think about.

Do you go to Rush's GEM program?

My apologies for making that assumption. You are certainly within reason of calling or trying to track down the writers. If that doesn't work, go to your Dean and ask for help intervening. You paid for this education and are entitled to get attention/help. I can't emphasize, though, how much easier it is to have a "bank" of letters to rely on when an employer asks at the last minute. Best of luck with your search.

Knowing where you are and knowing that Children's is the only program I can think of which requires letters of reference for new grad employment, I am almost positive they recommend at least ONE letter be from a clinical instructor, the others can come from didactic and theory instructors. Secondly, this isn't helpful but you shouldn't have waited this long to get letters. Always solicit for a letter of reference after the course is complete and the instructor still knows you. There are many reputable and secure credential filing services you can use to store letters in confidence if your department/school doesn't already do so.

Get the ADN. Less competition for us BSN/MSN grads entering the market.

maybe you could stop at the CNA level and call it a day. you'll make a lot more than a security guard and have many of the patient care experiences you might be seeking. another option for a community college might be a LPN route. honestly i think going the ADN route for an RN licensure is a waste of money. who knows how much longer they'll be around and fewer and fewer hospitals are even considered hiring them. BSN should be the norm for entry at this point.

A strong sense of patience and diminished sense of smell.

i disagree with the earlier poster about looking into an ADN program. I think that's a big mistake as so many hospitals aren;t even hiring associate's degreed nurses anymore. The era of the community college nurse is hopefully on the tail end.

Oh, I am definitely not backpedaling. Let me clarify, I said I know many highly capable ADN's (who have taken it upon themselves to learn on the job and go above and beyond) and I also know many ADN's who would serve the profession well by retiring. We ALL have. And stop being so defensive and emotional - it is not helping your argument. And if making judgement calls about what kind of person I am or nurse I am going to be is helping you get through your day, than by all means dish it out. I was only suggesting it might be better for this energy to be directed at the original discussion which I did read. I feel that few have addressed the CORE of why BSN/MSN candidates are preferred in the market or why the ANA is lobbying for the BSN to become the minimum degree for entry into the profession. You might disagree this is happening, but why might the marketplace be responding?

OK, it's clear I hit a nerve and trust me this was not my intention and it was my hope this would open up a constructive argument, not an opportunity to make further assumptions about my own capabilities and experience. My writing style is direct and to the point and I will admit I am not as sensitive as others on the issue. Perhaps it would be better if we directed this energy to the issue of the OP and ask why it is that the job market and education lobby is favoring BSN (and MSN) trained entry level candidates over the ADN programs. The writing is on the wall, folks, that these programs are on the verge of being phased out and the only question is when. I agree it might take some time. But isn't it a positive thing that our profession is going to evolve to a higher standard? Why is there resistance? And while I appreciate that "your particular ADN" program might have been an amazing experience, wouldn't you welcome an opportunity to learn more and at a higher level? [Also, as others have pointed out in this thread, it is a fallacy to assume that all ADN's have more clinical time and practical experience - most states have a regulated amount of required clinical time before they allow a student to sit for the NCLEX and furthermore I know of many BSN and MSN-entry programs which go above and beyond the requisite clinical experience, particularly in specialty fields]. I for one will continue to support the decisions of hospitals in my area to stop hiring ADN's altogether. We need to move on as a learned profession. I am not offended by the reactions to my post, but rather hope people can use their time drafting replies to address the topic at hand rather that speculate on my own training and background.

I don't know if it helps with admission but at my school we have a new scholarship program for minorities which includes males. It really helped out a lot of the guys in our program and I thought was a good way to encourage more underrepresented groups to enter nursing.

You're taking this argument too personally and appearing defensive which is not my intent. I think it's important we break down what it is you are suggesting. (1) I am not making any assumptions about your individual capabilities as a nurse nor your ADN program. All schools are different and yours might very well be excellent but for the most part the biggest difference between the BSN and ADN track is the emphasis on critical thinking, assessment and advanced / specialty didactic elements. BSN trained nurses are in theory better prepared to work and react with in a complex clinical setting. If you disagree, please tell me what in your mind is the main difference between BSN and ADN programs. (2) The ANA and many other research based hospital networks have been pushing for years for the BSN track to become the main entry for nurses into the practice and this is becoming evident with more and more hospitals now only hiring BSN new grads. In your defense of ADN nurses, why is this the case? (3) As an MSN entry nurse, I too am working very hard at my degree and proud of my path to becoming the best nurse I can possibly be. I am particularly interested in management prospects so as such am very interested in your opinions as to why an associates degree provides the same level of academic training and rigor as a bachelors. My experience so far has shown many at the ADN to be very critical of me and my peers entering nursing and to be frank I think this is mostly out of fear that their degrees are becoming obsolete. Nursing has experienced dramatic growth in the past decade and let's be honest the advanced education of new nurses is only going to strengthen this for the new generation entering the field. Are you against this?

Absolutely! That person with an MD from Harvard is the same as the Caribbean MD educated offshore. Degrees, certification initials and the reputation of your school are very important with getting your foot in the door. That's why colleges are expensive and hard to get into. The other qualities you mention, btw, are important for keeping the job once your credentials have landed you the interview and position.