I've noticed something on these boards...

[bethem]

Disclaimer: This is not to bash US nurses at all, you're all great. Love your work.

OK. After reading through a lot of these threads, especially the ones titled things like "Nurses eat their young", I have noticed that American nurses in general seem to be very competitive with each other and almost perpetuate this "eating their young" thing by going in with a defensive attitude. In many of the threads, nurses are frustrated by colleagues who have no respect for teamwork or 'mateship'. Now, I don't profess to have much experience at all. I have worked as an AIN for a month, and been a student for two years. I have found every single nurse I've met to be helpful and cooperative. There are certainly some who could use a few more communication classes, but all in all there have been no major problems.

It could just be me. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I also go in to a ward with the assumption that everyone will be nice, and I make sure I appear enthusiastic and helpful. When I don't understand or know something, I ask before it becomes a problem.

Do you think that this is a difference in Australian *nursing* culture specifically, or Australian culture in general? Or have I been extremely lucky?

[Grace Oz]

attention:

no yank bashing on here thank you!

we are guests on here. this is brian's website. he's an american.

show respect!

the whole bloody world is different! that's what makes it interesting having this life journey. let's just accept each other and the things that make us different. when you truly disect it, the only true thing which divides humanity is the oceans which divide the lands on which we walk. and because of that, different cultures evolved. but, at the core of it, humans are humans wherever you go.

jmho

[Grace Oz]

let's not get onto the old, tired debate about nurses eating their young...again!!!

nurses are people! it's people who indulge in this sort of crap. not any one particular profession! you'll find the same kind of nonsense happening in all workplaces! there's the clash of ages, ideas, qualifications etc etc. it's all time wasting, energy sapping bull****!

believe me, the older you get, the more you come to see what nonsense all this crap is!

[weetziebat]

aussie nursing culture, aussie culture in general......... i also hold the opinion that here in oz, we're such a unique mob that there's definately a cultural difference. we're not as anal retentive as some cultures and that's what sets us apart.

bethem, grace & froghair, having spent years working in a multicultural situation, i can assure you i know exactly what you are talking about. and i don't particularly think it stems only from the short-staffing, sue-happy patients or being burned out, that is so common in the u.s.

from what i've seen, aussie's in general (simply the one's i've encountered) are a much more relaxed, laid-back, don't-take-everything-so-seriously type of folk. i remember a code where the american nurses were freaking out, screeching at each other and an aussie team leader walked in and laughed, then said 'don't get your knickers in a knot, he's dead so if its 5 compressons to 2 breaths or 5 compressions to 1 breath, anything you do for him is helping". not to get into a discussion about proper code protocol, but it really helped to break the tenseness in the room. btw, he was resuscitated.

i've worked with numerous lovely american nurses, - my workmates now are the best! - but must agree that on many occasions we tend to be defensive, judgmental, competitive, not helpful to new staff, and can be intensely anal. frequently there is no teamwork and amazingly, to me, it seems some are set up to fail. and working in that atmosphere is enough to put a very toxic pall over the entire area. i know how awful it can be when you're so busy you don't have time for a break, even a potty break, but in such situations humor can be much more effective than turning cranky and b*tchy.

irish nurses are also a hoot to work with, imho. and many brits. just my

[bethem]

The American bashing gets really old. I have been an American ex-pat overseas long enough to see the original intent of this thread for what it is.... another negative stereotype/American bash. Yawn.

You cannot tell me that there is no bullying in Australia. It is everywhere. I have worked in 3 countries and never experienced it first hand but I know it exists everywhere.

Just watch out because if we yanks get ticked off we may all jump in our pick up trucks with the gun racks in the back and chase after you so we can bring Jesus Christ and George Bush into your life and steal your oil. Thats the kind of stuff we live to do yeeha.

Noahm, I wasn't saying there is no bullying in Australia, of course not! Can we all say Cronulla race riots? I think that's pretty bad bullying, to put it mildly. I was just saying that I personally haven't seen it yet in nursing, which is a lot to do with the fact that I have very little experience. It's also not Yank-bashing, if this was an English board and English nurses were reporting the same sort of horror stories, I would have asked "Is this something that is more common in England than Australia?" It seems from the responses so far that I've been lucky not to see the nastiness that can happen. As one of the previous posters said, there was a horrible story about bullying in Australia - which I missed, because I am also fairly new to these boards. It was just an observation that *some* nurses talked about on these boards, who just happen to be American, seem to be quicker to be nasty than *some* nurses I have met who just happen to be Australian. Also since there is such a promotion of the culture of "mateship" in Australia, which I admit has not been very visible lately, I wondered if it was a sort of attitude difference that is inherited by Aussies. Just asking is all.

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

Thanks for the input Grace - as usual right on the money!!

I don't know but if the Forster and Davis inquiries here are anything to go by then all the bullies moved north to sunny QLD. You might not have heard but the enquiries (plural) BOTH found that there is a culture of bullying and intimidation in QLD health that dates back YEARS. It is true. I work with 3 Americans and they all have a great sense of humour. It is a constant laugh in relation to our language differences!!

Bullying is a world - wide phenomena. One of the first websites dealing with workplace bullying was Tim Field's - from the UK!!

[bethem]

Bethem, Grace & Froghair, Having spent years working in a multicultural situation, I can assure you I know exactly what you are talking about. And I don't particularly think it stems only from the short-staffing, sue-happy patients or being burned out, that is so common in the U.S.

From what I've seen, Aussie's in general (simply the one's I've encountered) are a much more relaxed, laid-back, don't-take-everything-so-seriously type of folk.

I've worked with numerous lovely American nurses, - my workmates now are the best! - but must agree that on many occasions we tend to be defensive, judgmental, competitive, not helpful to new staff, and can be intensely anal. Frequently there is no teamwork and amazingly, to me, it seems some are set up to fail. And working in that atmosphere is enough to put a very toxic pall over the entire area. I know how awful it can be when you're so busy you don't have time for a break, even a potty break, but in such situations humor can be much more effective than turning cranky and b*tchy.

Irish nurses are also a hoot to work with, IMHO. And many Brits. Just my

This is what I was getting at, in a way. Aussies are generally quick to laugh at themselves more so than Americans - in general, from what I've seen. Of course this is a generalisation, of course it perpetuates stereotypes. I have met some extremely anal, rude and "entitled" Aussies who I would gladly kick in the bum, and some Americans who are just lovely, and the kindest, most wonderful people I would ever hope to meet. The point of this thread has to be generalisations, because I can't personally survey every single US nurse and every single Aussie nurse to get their opinions! Noahm and others who feel this is a "Yank-bash", I assure you this is not what I wanted. I am not judging Americans and saying "All Americans are mean, ready to kill and are only out for themselves" at all. You guys have it much worse than we do, which I think has a lot to do with the way the health care system in the US puts pressure on you.

It seems, as I said before, that I have been lucky not to encounter much of the nastiness that exists the world over - in nursing, high school and every single other group or situation you can think of. I just thought, given the odds, if I hadn't seen it in nursing by my third year of study and working as an AIN, maybe it was less prevalent here.

I appreciate all of your perspectives, it is really interesting to see the subtle differences between US and Aussie cultures. As a previous poster said, we are so alike yet so different.

Please continue to share your perspectives, but I don't want this to turn into a fight! That helps no one.

[Grace Oz]

it seems, as i said before, that i have been lucky not to encounter much of the nastiness that exists the world over - in nursing, high school and every single other group or situation you can think of. i just thought, given the odds, if i hadn't seen it in nursing by my third year of study and working as an ain, maybe it was less prevalent here.

i'm glad you've avoided being the 'victim' of bad behaviour and hope it continues that way for you.

i wasn't directing my comments about "yank bashing" right towards you, bethem. i was "playing mother", which i sometimes do when i feel things either are, or may, head towards getting nasty or out of hand. and... i'm not even the moderator! lol gwenith is!! lol i just call the shots as i see them, is all. since you're relatively new to the boards, you would have missed some of the heated, flamed and insulting posts in the years past. some of them got really heated! and, while the idea is to share differing opinions etc, it's very important for all of us to remember to remain polite and respectful. i'm not saying you weren't, ok? i fully understand what you're saying and it's fine to have our opinions. i was just trying to ensure no "yank bashing" even started. i'm into 'prevention' rather than having to find a 'cure.' hope this makes sense. :-) please continue to enjoy the debate. :-)

[TDub, MSN, EdD]

I have noticed a large proportion of nurses here (here in the States, that is) who enjoy tripping one up and/or sitting back and letting you make a mistake without warning you. The old give you enough rope to hang yourself with. (Do you guys have that expression?) I don't like it. If I wasn't so tired, I'd write a funny post detailing the types of nurses you meet on the job: the wanna-be doctor, the radical unionist, the kissbutt corporate lackey, the university educated I'm-so-much-smarter-than-you-and-you-can't-possibly-understand-nursing-theory RN, the community college educated you're-living-in-a-fricking-ivory-tower-now-get-out-of-my-way-and-let-me-work RN, the let-me-tell-you-your-business-even-though-you've-been-a-nurse-for-20-years RN, the bossy nun RN, the passive-aggressive nun RN, the lazy ass RN, the I love committees RN, the I'm greedy for power and I'll-wield-what-little-I've-got-over-you RN, the I-went-to-school-in-the-40's-and-I-refuse-to-change RN and so on. and then there's me, the perfect RN.:barf01:

No really, I think I'm the world-weary-"yeah, yeah, whatever, I've seen it all, shut up and let me work ok?" RN. I think our whole nursing set up: charge/titles/work/hospitals/insurance/education/certification/advanced practice is pretty different than the rest of the world. Nursing itself is the same. Work environments in the US can be pretty toxic. (sometimes we need to be smacked around, Grace. smiles ) There's one nurse on my old unit none of the instructors will place a student with 'cause she loves to ask the students hard questions (they really don't need to know) until they cry. Then her work is done.

BUT, when it works, when it gels, when everyone is tight and can help each other seamlessly and can communicate across the patient with eyes alone and can practically read each other's mind..... It's heaven. I've had a few jobs where I'd trust my co-workers not only with my life, but with the lives of my children, blindfolded.

[al7139, ASN, RN]

OK,

Let me submit my opinion: As a new grad who has been working as an RN since June, I think I can see both sides. I had several clinical experiences in school where as a student I was treated as an inconvenience on the unit I was assigned. The truth is students are an inconvenience. The difference is that some nurses can hide that fact and some can't. I judged the nurses I worked with as a student on their patient care, not how they dealt with me. Some were excellent nurses and I learned alot from them, I just had to let the attitude roll off my back. The unit I work on now I did two clinicals on, and what sold me was the welcome we students got. They were eager to have us. Most of the nurses on the unit really were good teachers, and those that were'nt still taught me how not to be. We are in a very high stress high responsibility job. School does not prepare us for what it's really like to be a nurse. Give them a break. Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher.

Amy

[nyapa, RN]

:trout:

i have found one big difference between aussie and american nurses and im stuggling to say what i want as i know my post will get edited and then it will be a free for all on my ar$e, so im just going to say it....... alot of american nurses (that ive seen post on here) have no sense of humor and are really anal. now it might be due to the patient ratios you guys have but alot of you need to learn to take the pi$$ out of yourself and not be so up tight,...... let the belting commence, ill even make it easy for you guys and grab my ankles

Awwww...there are posts out there that are specifically for fun; 'game posts'. BTW I'm not game to get the belt out, you might whack me back! :trout:

[nyapa, RN]

My point, and I'll say it again, is you can't judge a culture of nurses by what you read on a message board.

The US is a big country and nursing even differs from one part of the states to the other.

If we're anal it's because of lawyers and people suing and this organization called JACHO.

I'll get off my soapbox, because I will be the first to admit that nursing this US isn't pretty. I don't have rose colored glasses on.

Go for it Tweety :) I agree with you. I think wards differ, let alone hospitals and states, and countries. I know there are some wards in my hospital that ppl dread to be sent to. Surely it is the same everywhere.

I'm wondering how many ppl have actually been to the US on this board who can make a proper comparison between the two countries? And even then the opinions would be subjective. And as for eating our young, there are some nurses in Australia who are actually guilty of that OMG!

I figure that is why so many ppl come to these boards from all over the world. There are not many Australian boards on the Net, so we come here :balloons:

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

If you look up research on horizontal violence in nursing, most of it was done in Australia. Maybe Australia had this problem in the past and has done something about it, so you don't see it there as much any more?