In my school a fairly large number of students, including me, have been failed in our clinical courses by arbitrary decisions made by instructors. By "arbitrary decisions" I mean that the instructors are given unrestricted power to fail students without the use of predetermined standards.
In addition, these decisions seem to affect males disproportionately. This is just based on my observations, not statistics, but males appear to make up 10-20% of the students at the school while more than 90% of those failed in these arbitrary decisions are men.
I'm pretty sure gender discrimination is at work here, particularly considering that this school decides which students to admit purely based on academic standards (meaning that the disproportionate number of men being failed cannot be explained away by suggesting that men are simply weaker than women, academically speaking.) All students at this school have about a 4.0 GPA at the start of the program.
In my own experience, the instructor who failed me was very unprofessional, rude, and nasty towards me. This behavior started literally on day one, which I think disproves any possible claim that her ill will towards me was based on anything other than some sort of prejudice. She proceeded to seek out opportunities to misrepresent events in order to make me look bad, presumably so she could build a case against me to fail me.
As an example, on the paperwork with which she officially failed me in the course she vaguely stated that she had a conversation with the RN I was working with that led her to the conclusion that I "lacked initiative." What is interesting is that she made that same accusation to me in person moments after the conversation in question (which I estimate lasted about 15 seconds.) When she made the accusation to me in person, I asked her to clarify what exactly she was basing this assumption on, and she stated that the conclusion that I "lacked initiative" was based on the fact that it had come up in this conversation with the RN that a procedure had been done on my patient and that the RN had done the procedure instead of me.
I only had one RN that I was working with that day, I only had one patient that day, and my patient only had one procedure. At the time of that procedure, the RN asked the patient, "Would you rather have a female [the RN] perform this procedure instead of a male [me]?" And the patient said, "Sure. I guess I'd prefer a female." So this was an example of explicit gender discrimination that was actually cited as a reason for my instructor failing me.
I find the arbitrary nature of these decisions strange. These decisions are made against people who have invested years of their time and thousands of dollars of their money and against people who have succeeded at every step of the way in their educational career, and it is odd to me that all of their hard work can be thrown away purely based upon what appears to be an individual's personal dislike of them.
Can anyone relate to these kinds of experiences? Is this typical of nursing schools?
Actually very few have addressed his original question, they including you, have addressed what YOU (the collective) THINK is the question. and I don't think your quote from the OP is either passive aggressive or personal attack![/quote']
Morte, perhaps you can tell us what the actual question is then, since we all seem to be missing the point. I apparently need a translator.
reread, he did try to clarify expectations, it got him exactly nowhere.
Actually I am not "pretending it is about one situation", precisely why I asked for more information or other events that you state happened along the way. But we're not talking about you, right? So to your question about arbitrary failings... Yes I believe it can happen, your instructors are human and therefore have the potential to make "poor judgement" calls but I don't think this is common. Your expectations are made clear in clinicals and most schools have some type of grading rubric with competencies which DO include "plays nice with others".
I agree with her.
To answer your original question, yes, some instructors are unfair and arbitrarily will try to mess up your life, livelihood, finances, etc. Just like it will happen with jobs and bosses, as others have mentioned.
But I also do believe that most students claiming arbitrary failure do not realize their own shortcomings. There are three sides to every story. So the best they can do is attempt to appeal the decision and hope for one of two results. 1.) they victor and the clinical instructor is found in the wrong, 2,) they're decision is upheld and the student can go home for a year and self-reflect. So good luck with that if you decide to appeal your own failure that we're not discussing here anymore. I hope you get whatever you need out of it, truly.
and I won't even address your attempt to personally attack me. I believe you were upset (but whoa nelly watch that keyboard;).) Plus its Valentine's Day and I like the mood I woke up in.
Actually, very few have addressed his original question, they including you, have addressed what YOU (the collective) THINK is the question. and I don't think your quote from the OP is either passive aggressive or personal attack!
Hey morte.
I do feel that personal attacks can be quite subjective. Especially here on AN. But the OP also feels I personally attacked him in my first post which I didn't nor did I intend to.
But I do gather a passive aggressive tone in this thread, but I also understand you completely that some are reading differently than others.
I don't even remember what the real point of this thread is anymore to be honest lol. Can we start over.
Lady, sorry about the confusion; my question was aimed at the med school analogy. apparently I didn't hit the Qoute button.
However, the OP has to respect the nursing instructor "perception" as well; maybe the instructor is without malice; we do not know and we don't to make an opinion on the maters; however that is something that ANY nursing student has to realize that perception is REALITY-excluding any fringe nursing instructors...they assess the behaviors and have to make a nursing judgement on the criteria; I don't know what at the OP's actions were; however I can't state that he was discriminated against; no one can, because we weren't there.
Ah! NOW we have an example of passive aggression! lol. Go back to the original post, READ it, line by line. His reference to gender bias was toward the instructor not the patient. He stated this behavior on the part of the instructor began on DAY 1, and that, while males made up 10/20 % of his cohort, they represented ~ 90% of those that failed. This in a school that admissions were based on academics not lottery or points.
He stated he attempted to clarify expectations, didn't work. I do know that more persons are fired for lack of interpersonal skills than actual bad performance, but you have to have time for the performance before the judgement! Remember, per OP this problem started on DAY 1!
If someone came to you for COPD, would you treat them for a broken leg? We, here at AN, need to answer the question asked, not accuse the OP of lying/omitting. If you don't like the question, don't participate! He wanted to know is this common, I don't know, but it isn't UNCOMMON.
Morte, perhaps you can tell us what the actual question is then, since we all seem to be missing the point. I apparently need a translator.
Ah! NOW we have an example of passive aggression! lol. Go back to the original post READ it, line by line. his reference to gender bias was toward the instructor not the patient. he stated this behavior on the part of the instructor began on DAY 1, and that, while males made up 10/20 % of his cohort, they represented ~ 90% of those that failed, this in a school that admissions were based on academics not lottery or points. he stated he attempted to clarify expectations, didn't work. I do know that more persons are fired for lack of interpersonal skills than actual bad performance, but you have to have time for the performance before the judgement! Remember, per OP this problem started on DAY 1! If someone came to you for COPD, would you treat them for a broken leg? We, here at AN, need to answer the question asked, not accuse the OP of lying/omitting. If you don't like the question, don't participate! He wanted to know is this common, I don't know, but it isn't UNCOMMON.[/quote']
That was a genuine question that I posed to you. I am not being passive aggressive. I thought I DID answer his question when I addresses his frustration over clinical grading feeling arbitrary. This is an unfortunate part of nursing school. I thought what he was asking was whether this is a common method of grading in other schools, and yes, it is.
I actually was hoping you could tell me what his question was because I really thought I answered it.
And I've read your post a few times and still can't find what the question is, if arbitrary grading in other programs isn't it.
But I guess the original question of "Is this common" can't really be answered.
most of us have been to only one nursing school so we only have our own experiences and opinions to contribute.
and of any actual instructors that are on here, how many are really going to answer. " Yes, this is common, I do it all the time".
He says 90% of the males failed. Maybe it is discrimination, i would never be so naive to say it does not exist, but it could also just be that they did not perform as well as their classmates.
I believe another poster here said in her cohort the men were coddled and women thrown to sink or swim. That sucks too. Am I still in the confusion pile, someone help. Lol
Yes, unfortunately there are some of these types of nursing instructors out there. My school had one of these. She would pick out a person at the beginning of clinical and would fabricate or embellish scenarios to fail them. The school was very well aware of her behavior and yet tolerated it with the attitude that it was very difficult to get clinical instructors at this level. She had a solid performance record of failing one student per session and made a point of telling students that she teaches at another college where only the best students are allowed to take her courses. It's curious to me that these types of instructors never question there own performance when failing a student each semester. Never question if they could have supported, interacted, instructed that student stronger to bring them to a place of desired performance. The students in my program were all overachievers with excellent academic histories. I will say that eventually something happened to get the Dean of Nursing involved and finally the situation has changed and that particular instructor is not longer teaching at the program. Most students don't push the situation up the chain of command where they may find a different outcome. I'm sorry you are experiencing this. I wish you the best. If there is a way to make an appointment with the Dean you may consider that. It worked for someone I knew and was just what she needed, to get out of the clinical group of this particular instructor and into another one, until that particular phase of the program where the instructor taught was completed.
I've reread the OP and your post, morte, and I believe the disconnect (for me, anyway) is that I haven't adequately addressed the issue of the majority of those being failed being male. The reason I don't address that is because (from my point of view) you can't lump failing students together like that. I can't imagine what it's like going into a predominantly female profession, and I'm sure it's frustrating having the other males lose their place in the program with you. It sounds to me like this instructor may very well be a poor teacher, and god knows we've all had to deal with them in school at some point. But to lump it together and assume it's gender isn't fair for those of us on the outside to do because we don't know why the other males have failed. So I took the information I could identify with - the arbitrary feeling of clinical grading - and I addressed that.
I will repeat this much because I feel the point has been lost - when I say there must be more to the story, it is not an accusation. It is a thinking point - soul search ... Do a thorough assessment of all that happened and really piece the whole story together to know if there is a bigger picture being missed here. If this is fully the fault if the instructor, fight it. If it's not, humble yourself, ask for reconsideration and share why you feel you can do better.
As for the tone of this thread, I will make this general statement - if you look for passive aggressiveness and insult, you will find it. That's why it is best to try not to read tone in posts. Often times I find when I am most offended it is because I assumed the tone behind a post was entirely different than it was meant.
It is ridiculous because it is obvious. If someone actually is kicked out of a program due to their gender, it is not right. It didn't warrant being addressed because it was, to me at least, sort of whiny.
OP jumps back and forth between saying people are failed due to gender, then it being because of lack of initiative, while in his OP saying that the teacher had problems with him from the start.
He also kind of deflected from the original topic that HE kept 'bringing it back to' when it suited his purposes, when he suddenly saw himself as attacked/persecuted. Many of us gave examples from our personal experiences about unfair treatment from clinical instructors. And OP, on many occasions, brought it back to his own situation, only to claim this thread isn't about him.
I mean, seriously, this thread is so pointless. It is going around in circles, because at the end of the day, all OP is looking for is validation from strangers on the internet saying that yes, instructors in nursing school are flawed and some treat people unfairly, and here's a hug and pat on your back, etc.
Oh, and in regards to admissions bring based on grades only, with 20% male admissions, 90% of those who fail...might be completely irrelevant. In my classes in NS, some of those who failed due to clinical, for actually not doing well there, not just teachers arbitrarily failing and all, had amazing grades on exams. Sometimes, book smarts don't translate to abilities live in clinical. This in no way implies that men have poor bedside manner, or the ability to apply what they learn. It might just be coincidence. Another PP mentioned this, but I'll direct you back to that quote about persecution (I'm on my phone and don't feel like going through the trouble of looking for it, sorry.)
OP, best of luck to you. And no, I have nothing against you other than frustration for how you are reacting to smart people who HAVE made it through NS giving you valuable advice. But again, I'll mention that quote about persecution and all.
again were is the passive aggression? and if he is in the right, why should he "try differently?"[/quote']
Ok, when I have time to sort through all his comments, I'll nitpick and put them all together. Right now, again, phone and laziness win.
As far as trying differently, we don't know that he's right or wrong. But if being a nurse means that much to him, he could apply to a student school, and perhaps learn to accept advice and constructive criticism. That's what I meant with differently.
I live in an area that more than one nursing program was audited and put on hiatus due to low passing rates. True, instructors do have rights to do things as they see fit, but eventually every decision has consequences.
ixchel
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