Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

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An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

*** You can't make that point.

I already made that point way back in post #772 when I said this:

"You don't need it (it being a BSN) to go to grad school. CRNA requires a BS or BA but many schools accept degrees other than BSN."

You then asked for links to schools that did not require a BSN and I provided a bunch of them.

Everybody knows that the accrediting body for CRNA schools (the AANA) requires a bachelors degree. It does not require that degree to be in nursing.

You stated that I was misinformed, that a BSN was required to get a MSN when that is clearly not true.

I appreciate PMFB's diligence and thoroughness. If recklessly or just casually unfounded posts are allowed to pass by unchallenged, the quality and usefulness of this forum as a resource is put in doubt. I also thought PMFB did a good job of simply addressing tferdaise's points without rudeness, etc. Nice job. Now, back to the main part of the thread...

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Now, back to the main part of the thread...

*** In that case the answer is no. A BSN will not be required soon.

My opinion is that we should do away with the BSN as an entry point for RN practice and standardize on the ADN as the entry point for RNs. Advanced practice programs like CRNA, NP of all types, CNMW & CNS should be at the BSN level.

Only my opinion.

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Specializes in Im interested in ob,L&D, crna, and np.

I think it would be better for all nurses to be required to get a bsn.

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Specializes in ED.

I keep saying this in conversation, you can't sell plastic decking without a bach. degree why should you be able to hold someone's life in you hand without one. If the level of education increased the view of nurses going through DeVry to practice would vanish. It's a professional career and the mosted trusted career in the U.S. it should require a BSN. I do feel all the nurses already in practice should be grandfathered but new nurses should be BSN at the very least. Also, put away the arguement the ADN/BSN programs are the same, the BSN is greater in scope, teaching critical thinking with a broader skill and knowledge base, not just a condensed program instructing bedside nursing.

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I know that many of you want the BSN to be the required degree to become a nurse, but I don't believe it will happen. Here are some questions that people should think about concerning this issue:

First, what about all of the LPNs/LVNs? I work in LTC as a nursing assistant, and they do a great job at the bedside and supervising, even without a degree. If a new law was passed requiring the BSN, what would happen to them? Nursing homes primarily use LPNs, so would these nurses be required to find a BSN school within a certain amount of time to get their degree or else lose their license?

2. If having the BSN is so important, why don't hospitals and other employers pay BSN graduates significantly more than ADN graduates? I know that some places offer a bit more, but it's usually only .25 to $1 more per hour.

3. Is there any real evidence that LPNs/LVNs and ADN nurses are harming patients/residents more than BSN nurses simply based on the level of their education?

4. ADN and BSN nurses take the same NCLEX. Why don't BSN nurses take a different version of the NCLEX? Also, is there a big difference in the pass rates of ADN and BSN nurses on the NCLEX?

5. If the BSN became the required degree, what would happen to the LPN/LVN and ADN schools? Where would the students in these programs go, since many colleges now are already turning away qualified nursing students because there aren't enough teachers.

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I'd like to toss in the idea of RN programs NOT granting any college degree and instead, requiring a minimum of an associate's degree in ANY field plus relevant pre-reqs to get into the program. A person might get an associate's or bachelor's in a general health sciences major if they wanted a degree, but the point would be that to get into RN school, at least an associate's degree would be required. Not quite a bachelor's but moving in that direction.

Once the ASN/BSN was removed from the picture, RN school could perhaps narrow its focus and do a better job preparing students to practice clinical nursing.

Some nursing jobs might require or prefer a bachelor's degree in addition to the RN license. So a public health nurse might need a bach in public health or in any field plus certain relevant coursework in order to apply for that kind of position. They might be hired on with the expectation of starting that coursework within the next year.

This type of set-up would more clearly differentiate the educational prep between LPN and RN since LPN doesn't require any kind of college degree. For those unable or unwilling to get an associate's degree before applying to nursing school, they could go the LPN route and get started sooner, though at a different level. Then later, if they desired, they could get a college degree and then apply for a bridge program.

This type of set up would also put all RNs on equal footing in regard to their RN training, since the RN program would be completely separate from any degree earned.

Just a thought!

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I think it would be better for all nurses to be required to get a bsn.

*** Why do you think so? When you say that do you mean _ALL_ nurses as you stated or do you think BSN should be required of all new nurses and those existing grandfathered?

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

I keep saying this in conversation, you can't sell plastic decking without a bach. degree

why should you be able to hold someone's life in you hand without one.

*** So would you include paramedics and EMTs as those who need a BS?

If the level of education increased the view of nurses going through DeVry to practice would vanish.

*** WHat is DeVry?

It's a professional career

*** Hard to feel like a professional when you have to punch a times clock.

and the mosted trusted career in the U.S. it should require a BSN.

*** Well it became the most trusted (actually second most, behind another career that doesn't require a degree) without a BSN requirement to practice.

I do feel all the nurses already in practice should be grandfathered but new nurses should be BSN at the very least.

*** WHy? What do you think would be gained by such a requirement?

Also, put away the arguement the ADN/BSN programs are the same, the BSN is greater in scope, teaching critical thinking with a broader skill and knowledge base,

*** My BSN program doesn't do any of that, though I would agree, they are not the same.

not just a condensed program instructing bedside nursing.

*** That sounds like Accelerated BSN or direct entry MSN programs. They take a person with no health care experience and make them a nurse in a year or so.

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LVN's/LPN's are being phased out at some hospitals in NJ as we speak. They are now jobless. It's a darn shame b/c I know some who have been a LVN/LPN for 15 plus years and they know a heck of a lot more than some RN's.

Now, I have seen many BSN nurses in action and let me tell you, they are not very intelligent. Experienced RN's have also commented on that. These people have a four year degree??? Could have fooled me. Just b/c you have a BSN does not make you smarter or a better nurse. Think about it, the four year degree only requires that you take more "unneccessary" classses in school that have nothing to do with nursing. It's all about money, NOT education!!

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

Let's all remember that there are associates degree PA programs out there. Also there are lots of currently practicing CRNAs with no college degree at all, not even an associates.

I wouldn't be so opposed to the BSN requirement if only that meant that the BSN program taught more about nursing. My BSN program teaches nothing at all about nursing. How holding a gold ball in my hand, covering it with a sock, taping it on and walking around with it all day then writing a paper about it is supposed to make me a better nurse I don't know (a real assignment in one of my BSN classes)

If the BSN required more science or patho type classes maybe but just taking classes unrelated to nursing doesn't help. This is especially true for the large number of ADN RNs who have bachelors in other fields.

Making a BSN required would drastically change the type of people who go into nursing. There are 54 nurses in the SICU where I work. There are former dairy farmers, loggers, chefs, teachers, police officers, power line repairmen, a zoologist , a microbiologist, a funeral director, construction trades, truck drivers, one former Russian physician and lots former military corpsmen and lots of others. These are just the nurses with ADNs. I believe these diverse backgrounds bring something special to nursing practice and patient care that would missing if nurses where largely people who had gone from high school to college and then into nursing practice.

The point was made previously that nurses are among the most trusted professions. This is true but it became true with a large portion of RNs being ADNs.

I often wonder if the push for all BSN RNs isn't really about reducing the number of men in nursing. A majority of male RNs come to it as a second career through community colleges.

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The argument that 'nurses with relatively less education have done just fine' is valid but doesn't address the fact that NOT requiring/earning a bachelors for RN school DOES give the impression - rightly or wrongly - that it must not be THAT difficult.

The people arguing for BSN to entry aren't necessarily arguing that non-BSN nurses aren't "good enough." They are arguing that MANY other fields that aren't nearly as demanding nor have at much at stake DO require a bachelor's degree and that that makes nursing *look* like it must not take much in the way of smarts to become a nurse. Can't nurses handle another couple of years of college? What about a few extra years of college courses is so distasteful to nurses? If a person really wants to be a nurse, they won't let that dissuade them. And given the current strong interest in nursing school across the nation, there would still be more than enough applicants. As it is, ADN programs take at least 3 years to complete, so why not just make it an even 4 years and toss in a bach degree to boot?

Teachers and accountants need bachelors degree plus certifications so it's 4-5 years of formal education (not including any remedial coursework for pre-reqs) for most who pursue those. Why should it take any shorter to become a professional nurse?

And also keep in mind that supporting the idea of BSN to entry doesn't mean that one supports the *current* BSN curriculum either.

Then there's the argument that BSNs are more likely to leave the bedside. But do you really want to argue to keep non-Bach nurses because they are limited in their professional options and thus more likely to put up with poor working conditions?

I'm actually not a strong proponent of BSN to entry, but I do see why it's an appealing idea to many.

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Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.

thank you for considering us lonely often left out of the loop lvn's

i know that many of you want the bsn to be the required degree to become a nurse, but i don't believe it will happen. here are some questions that people should think about concerning this issue:

first, what about all of the lpns/lvns? i work in ltc as a nursing assistant, and they do a great job at the bedside and supervising, even without a degree. if a new law was passed requiring the bsn, what would happen to them? nursing homes primarily use lpns, so would these nurses be required to find a bsn school within a certain amount of time to get their degree or else lose their license?

2. if having the bsn is so important, why don't hospitals and other employers pay bsn graduates significantly more than adn graduates? i know that some places offer a bit more, but it's usually only .25 to $1 more per hour.

3. is there any real evidence that lpns/lvns and adn nurses are harming patients/residents more than bsn nurses simply based on the level of their education?

4. adn and bsn nurses take the same nclex. why don't bsn nurses take a different version of the nclex? also, is there a big difference in the pass rates of adn and bsn nurses on the nclex?

5. if the bsn became the required degree, what would happen to the lpn/lvn and adn schools? where would the students in these programs go, since many colleges now are already turning away qualified nursing students because there aren't enough teachers.

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