Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

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An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.

I started at a diploma program, in Brooklyn, in 1964. I was told that by 1970 most programs would be at the BSN level. I started at Hudson Valley Community College in 1969, graduated in 1971 with the understanding that all programs would be BSN by 1980. I took various graduate level courses at the University of South Florida during the 1980's and 1990's, and listened to the same bull. We will never turn professional nursing into a four year degree requirement. We do not have enough Master's prepared, let alone PhD prepared nurses to teach the necessary students now, what makes us think we will have them in two years? Or are some proposing we lower standards to meet their fanciful goal? We cannot get nurses to agree in one hospital, we will never get them to agree on the BSN being the only route for a professional nurse.

Woody:nurse:

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There has been a lot of dialogue on this subject but let us be careful that we as nurses do not further fragment ourselves by determining who shoould called "nurse" based on the BSN degree. From the LPN to the ADN and Diploma nurse, let us remember each area of nursing brings something to the table. Let nurses define ourselves and NOT politics inside or outside hospital management.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
There has been a lot of dialogue on this subject but let us be careful that we as nurses do not further fragment ourselves by determining who shoould called "nurse" based on the BSN degree. From the LPN to the ADN and Diploma nurse, let us remember each area of nursing brings something to the table. Let nurses define ourselves and NOT politics inside or outside hospital management.

That is the one thing that shouts through my brain. I am an LPN and am a dedicated to nursing within my scope of practice. I know that I bring many things to the table to contribute in a very positive way to nursing. I continue to update myself by reading journals, my textbooks and website resources to be current my teaching and practice. I know and comprehend why people wish to elevate the entrance level of nursing to BSN, but the question that haunts me is what about the rest of us??

I remember reading a post once here a month or so ago where that particular RN stated that LPNs earned our licenses in order not to work for minimum wage at Walmart. How hurtful that is to hear that! What being an LPN has done for most is allow a person to work a respectable job without having to depend on welfare, or accept a minimal wage job anywhere.

There are some people that wish to elevate themselves in nursing, but life circumstances have not allowed them for whatever reasons, other times, have been discouraged by the application process and many other things. And, then, there are those like me that just don't feel like it. Does this mean that those that can't or don't wish to are to be automatically thrown in the garbage like useless paper?

This is not a bash towards the higher licensed/educated nurses out there, but from what I have read, I see how we are really our own worse enemies.

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I only had a GED and no SAT's. Not a traditional application to a 4 year school

It's interesting that you said this. There was a blurb in the most recent time magazine about how some colleges (4 year universities, not community colleges) are starting to fore go or consider fore going SAT/ACT scores as part of the admission requirements. If this is a successful measure, it will be just one more thing that will help non-traditional students enter into 4-year-universities.

I also think that arguing about the quality of staff required to teach at a community college vs. a 4 year university as a reason to prevent standardizing the entry point into nursing at the BSN level is probably moot. In my area, at least, the community college faculty have the exact same educational requirements as the 4 year university faculty. All nursing faculty around here require a Masters degree and a certain number years of clinical experience.

Should the profession of nursing ever decide to standardize educational requirements to be a BSN, then I think it would probably be a matter of the 4 year universities absorbing the ADN programs around then; they would probably have satellite locations, or something to that effect, rather than just shutting the programs down all together. Perhaps there would be a slight decrease in the number of programs available, but I doubt it.

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Specializes in Emergency/ Critical Care.
adn faculty do not usuallly have the academic credentials to teach in a university level program. so, there would be a need for more doctorate level nursing faculty, with a domino effect. since most americas aren't wealthy enough to pay for any form of post-secondary education, it comes down to funding....and scholarships are few and far between.

the solution here in ontario is to have collaborations between the universities and colleges... the universities state what needs to be taught and grant the degree while the students attend the colleges

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My sister is a PT and most agencies pay her at least $50-$65/hr. Most agencies in NYC pay RNS $30-$45/hr. My sister is able to practice indendently and bill the insurance company for her services, if she would like.

Comparing us to PTs is like comparing apples to oranges.

As for their level of education, it does count for something. they have more autonomy than we do. They can open their own practice if they wanted to.

Increasing their educational requirement to MSN- well it's supply and demand. There might not be as great a demand for PTs. I would bet you if there ever became a crisis (PT shortage) that requirement would be decreased.

Getting your BSN makes you a well rounded person. You are able to explore other aspects of nursing ie.nursing research, management, etc.

How do you expect to be respected when the nutritionist, social worker and others have their MSN.Then here come the RNs with their ADNs and diplomas. That does not look good in their eyes and many resent us for getting paid more than them.

Some MDs think we just have 1 year training after HS. they sure do look at you in a different light when they realize you went to college , have a BSN, and might have taken some of the courses they did.

Knoledge equal power and there is no way around that.

It is up to you as an individual RN to assert yourself and demand the respect you deserve.

Getting your BSN will not fix the problem, but it is a start. You should also know your hospital policies, attend conferences, know your contract if you have one, etc.

Trust me, you will less likely tolerate crap from other profressionals and management if you empower yourself. Know what is going on in the world of nursing and be politically active. Too many nurses just want to work, collect a check and go home.

Me i want to make a differnce in this profession. I will not tolerate being walked on or over.

The power is also in numbers. You must get together with your colleagues to fight the uphill battle. Keep them informed. Don't keep the info for yourself.

A man is not an island.

After all these years, I can't believe this discussion is still going on. It baffles me as to why ours is the only profession that doesn't require a college degree. It's actually quite embarrassing if you think about it. At least most hospitals are finally getting rid of LVN's, so that's a first step.

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After all these years, I can't believe this discussion is still going on. It baffles me as to why ours is the only profession that doesn't require a college degree. It's actually quite embarrassing if you think about it. At least most hospitals are finally getting rid of LVN's, so that's a first step.

Physical Therapy ASSISTANTS have a two year ASSOCIATES DEGREE AS ENTRY INTO PRACTICE!!! What does that say about RNs and LPNs? What does that tell other health care professionals about the nursing profession? JMHO, and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
After all these years, I can't believe this discussion is still going on. It baffles me as to why ours is the only profession that doesn't require a college degree. It's actually quite embarrassing if you think about it. At least most hospitals are finally getting rid of LVN's, so that's a first step.

So behind all of these decisions that are really out of ALL of our control, LPNs deserve to be jobless? Is that really a fair solution?

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So behind all of these decisions that are really out of ALL of our control, LPNs deserve to be jobless? Is that really a fair solution?

No. That means that LPNs should increase their entry into practice to an Associates Degree, along with RNs increasing their entry into practice to a BSN. Spare me the sob stories about the single welfare mothers who need a "quick" education to get into the working world to bring them out of poverty, yada yada yada. Nursing does not need to be the "welfare" of health care professions. We are paid, and compensated as such. Along with our image that the public has of us.

Most of the public thinks that nursing is nothing more than "on the job training" and requires little if any college education. I don't care the public thinks that we are wonderful They think we are wonderful because we are stupid enough to work for as little as we do, have no power, and we are pushed around by everyone in the hospital, (as evidenced by the stories here about getting no support from supervisors in enforcing visiting hours). They think that we are just uneducated "doctor helpers".

That image will never change until we raise ourselves to the standards of other health care professionals. Nurses are a dime a dozen, and are used as interchangeable "widgets". We allow our professional practice to be sold to the highest bidder. We allow our professional practice to be "de professiononalized". "Anybody can be a nurse". Just put on scrubs and go to it.

Is that what you want nursings image to be? That is what is being sold to the public by the hospitals. If they had their way, they would de- professionalize the entire professional practice of an RN and hire high school dropouts to fill our jobs. We enable them to accomplish this by not pushing for higher educational levals for nursing. The publics sees little differance in the differant education levels that we have. Not much separates most nurses from blue collar jobs that can be had with a short educational path. One year for an LPN, two years for as Associates Degree and off you go to work? 6 months of OJT for a Medical Assistant?

We have no one to blame but ourselves for this entire mess. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

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Respectfully Lindarn, an ASN is not a two year degree. However, I do agree with you in principle. The reality is we don't have the academic infrastructure to graduate all nurses at a BSN minimum. I think the end result would be MORE health care positions that require a lower level of education with a larger scope of practice and more stress and liability for RN's.

I do see the big picture you are painting though. It professionally makes sense. Maybe, for the short term, a significantly more difficult NCLEX for BSN's would demarcate both degrees.

Just my thoughts.

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Respectfully Lindarn, an ASN is not a two year degree. However, I do agree with you in principle. The reality is we don't have the academic infrastructure to graduate all nurses at a BSN minimum. I think the end result would be MORE health care positions that require a lower level of education with a larger scope of practice and more stress and liability for RN's.

I do see the big picture you are painting though. It professionally makes sense. Maybe, for the short term, a significantly more difficult NCLEX for BSN's would demarcate both degrees.

Just my thoughts.

As long as that difficult NCLEX comes with more $$$, otherwise why even bother?

It's really ridiculous that our profession is the only one that doesn't require a bachelors degree for entry.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
No. That means that LPNs should increase their entry into practice to an Associates Degree, along with RNs increasing their entry into practice to a BSN. Spare me the sob stories about the single welfare mothers who need a "quick" education to get into the working world to bring them out of poverty, yada yada yada. Nursing does not need to be the "welfare" of health care professions. We are paid, and compensated as such. Along with our image that the public has of us.

Most of the public thinks that nursing is nothing more than "on the job training" and requires little if any college education. I don't care the public thinks that we are wonderful They think we are wonderful because we are stupid enough to work for as little as we do, have no power, and we are pushed around by everyone in the hospital, (as evidenced by the stories here about getting no support from supervisors in enforcing visiting hours). They think that we are just uneducated "doctor helpers".

That image will never change until we raise ourselves to the standards of other health care professionals. Nurses are a dime a dozen, and are used as interchangeable "widgets". We allow our professional practice to be sold to the highest bidder. We allow our professional practice to be "de professiononalized". "Anybody can be a nurse". Just put on scrubs and go to it.

Is that what you want nursings image to be? That is what is being sold to the public by the hospitals. If they had their way, they would de- professionalize the entire professional practice of an RN and hire high school dropouts to fill our jobs. We enable them to accomplish this by not pushing for higher educational levals for nursing. The publics sees little differance in the differant education levels that we have. Not much separates most nurses from blue collar jobs that can be had with a short educational path. One year for an LPN, two years for as Associates Degree and off you go to work? 6 months of OJT for a Medical Assistant?

We have no one to blame but ourselves for this entire mess. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

So, what does this mean for the LPN that has had difficulty entering into an ADN program; even with the up and coming bridge/transitional courses available? Should they be thrown in the dust? Or, LPNs (such as myself), who really have no interest in becoming an RN, but does the best that we can to contribute to positive patient outcomes deserve to be tossed in the garbage pail like useless trash?

I can see how you come to this conclusion professionally. You feel that nursing deserves respect for knowledge and it is not just some tart walking around in a cute white uniform while clicking gum like a cow. However, what I am also seeing is that education alone does not always make the person professional nor does it automatically make the person a safe, competent nurse. I am not saying this to you or anyone on this board in particular, but I can also say that I have seen higher licensed nurses that are totally useless to both, the bedside as well as managing...heck, I'd be afraid of some of them to place a blanket on me.

While I can agree and say that nursing can blame themselves for the chaos; it does not change what does exist...LPN, Diploma, ADN and BSN entrance levels for nurses. I'd rather try and see how we can co-exist than destroy each other even further than what has already happened.

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