Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Aug 15, 2006

It's not true that ADN is considered an 'occupation skill'. Nowhere but in debates here does anybody even realize there IS a difference between ADN/BSN. The doctors are mostly oblivious. Your administration knows, but doesn't care.

The ONLY place this has been actually tried is N. Dakota. And THEY repealed the law as unworkable.

That should speak volumes.

Rest assured that NY is aware of the failure in ND. This was on the drawing board in NY a few yrs ago, but the failure in ND has effectively 'tabled the motion'.

And if it somehow doesnt, real life experience in NY will force them to come to the same conclusion that ND did.

But in point of fact, this isn't new news. NY was considering this a few years ago and has simply failed to follow through on the concept.

~faith,

Timothy.

nurse2be2008 · Aug 30, 2006

I just started nursing school on Monday and one of my instructors who has been a nurse for 20+ years mentioned that she was hearing that in the next 10 years or so the minimum educational requirement for nursing will be an MSN degree. What in the world?!!!! :uhoh3:

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Aug 30, 2006

I just started nursing school on Monday and one of my instructors who has been a nurse for 20+ years mentioned that she was hearing that in the next 10 years or so the minimum educational requirement for nursing will be an MSN degree. What in the world?!!!!

I heard similar things, 15 yrs ago.

See, if THAT were so, those MSN nurses would need another license to fill in the supply and demand gap created by MSN-entry. A license to do actual bedside care. They'd have to CREATE a new job, something like a - now what's the word I'm looking for - think. . . . think. . . Something like a - RN.

You can't believe every bit of propaganda from the Ivory Tower.

~faith,

Timothy.

RN34TX · Aug 31, 2006

I heard similar things, 15 yrs ago.
See, if THAT were so, those MSN nurses would need another license to fill in the supply and demand gap created by MSN-entry. A license to do actual bedside care. They'd have to CREATE a new job, something like a - now what's the word I'm looking for - think. . . . think. . . Something like a - RN.
You can't believe every bit of propaganda from the Ivory Tower.
~faith,
Timothy.

It makes me think of my old LPN instructor who graduated from the state's first ADN program back in 1972. Many told her that she and other ADN prepared RN's were destined to become technicians of some sort and would not be considered to be "real nurses" anymore in the near future.

34 years later, and who still staffs the majority of staff nurse positions?

MSN minimum entry is almost laughable because we can't even come close to a BSN entry anytime in the near future.

Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

HeatherRN2006 · Sep 12, 2006

i went to pace university and majored in nursing. i received a bachelor of science... is that the same as BSN???

StaRNew · Sep 12, 2006

yep!!!!!!!!!!!!

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Sep 13, 2006

yep!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope.

Not in the last 40 yrs. Considering the way the academic elitist polarize the concept, not in the NEXT 40.

~faith,

Timothy.

KITTEN-KITTEN · Oct 3, 2006

I Have Been A Nurse For Many Years And Although I Am Adn There Are Positives For Bsn And Higher,but Not In The Hospital Setting. My Friend And I Started Nursing Within A Year From Each Other, Now She Is A Nurse Practioner And I Am Still A Staff Nurse. We Both Make The Same Money, I May Make More. But She Does Have More Autonomy And If She Didn't Want To Do What She Is Doing Now She Could Change Course And Do Something Else. I Enjoy Bedside Nursing And Thank God For My "good Job"everyday. There Is Such A Shortage Of Nurses In Med-surg Sector. The Workload Is High And The Rewards Not So High. Many New Nurses Leave After A Short Time Because Of This. No One Knows If You Spent 2,4,6yrs Pursuing The Education Level You Are. An Adn Hand Wipes A Butt Just S Good As A Bsn Or Msn Hand. The Good Thing Is You Can Go Do Something Else With Your Degree Or You Can Take Care Of Those Individuals That Need You Skills,compassion. And Care.

pcicurn7 · Oct 5, 2006

Wow, i just spent the last hour reading all the posts from 2004 to the one above...

I just wanted to comment...has anyone thought about the fact that ADN programs appeal to people because they are affordable and accesible to people of different walks of life? Based on this reason alone, ADN programs are absolutely necessary.

I will graduate in a few weeks with an ADN, and i would hope that people do not judge how much I know by the type of degree that i will have. I have been going to school, on and off, for the last 11 years. I am 2 semesters short of having a B.A...a fellow classmate has a masters degree in social work. What about the pool of knowledge that comes with being older and wiser, the type that comes along with the responsibilities of working for a living...in my case, i worked full time during the day and went to class full time at night. What about those students who have kids at home? Time management? Yep. Critical thinking? got it covered. I have busted my butt for the last three years, and if anyone thinks of me as being "below" them because they have an extra year of liberal art classes, I promise you that I will not stand for it.

I would NEVER in a million years would have pursued becoming an RN if it had meant me having to go back to my old college. I just simply could not afford it. I have a lot of educational debt, and ZERO percent of it comes from my nursing education.

I think, IMO, that respect should be given to fellow nurses, regardless of the degree that they hold. Everyone can have their own opinion regarding this topic, but the degree of respect that is given to fellow RNs should be the same. We can bicker within our group all we want, but we need to stand united when it comes to the big picture. You can beat up your siblings, you can say what you want about them...but you wouldnt let anyone else do it...make any sense?

I do think that, with many hospitals paying RNs to return to school to get an advanced degree, that it would be foolish not to take advantage of this. There are even accelerated programs designed specifically for the ADN nurse to get a BSN and go on to a masters. Lets suppose for a moment that ADN nurses will be given 10 years to complete a BSN. That's what? an extra 60-70 credits? Divided by 10 years....that's 7 credits a year, folks. That's 2 classes. TWO classes a year. How is this not possible? What are we SO afraid of? And even after getting a BSN...it doesnt mean we can no longer practice bedside nursing.

I think this has a lot to do with pride and misconceptions that were passed down to us from our leaders and peers. I can compare it to children of racist parents. Beliefs get passed down like bad genes. And they are hard to undo. But if we can get the new batch of nurses coming out to think proactively and feed them the confidence they need to be successful nurses, then the thought of furthering their education becomes second nature.

I will get my BSN, even if it only pays me $1 more. Why the heck not? What have I got to lose? It is a personal choice indeed, and I am not a young chicken living at my mother's house, so my quest for a BSN is going to take me a lot longer than most. But, i have my ADN to thank for at least giving me the opportunity to do it at my pace....

So, is it necessary? Absolutely. Without ADN programs, nursing as a profession would enter a terrible period.

pcicurn7 · Oct 5, 2006

Let's clear something up. The NCLEX represents the minimum standards required of a nurse to practice in a particular state. The fact the ADN and BSN nurses both take and pass the same exam, says nothing about their level of education. Passing the NCLEX ensures the state that you are able to practice sufficiently enough and won't kill someone. Many BSN programs require their students to pass their own examination before graduating, which is usually much broader in scope and harder than the NCLEX. At my school, USF, this is called the HESII exam.

oh, and BTW...many ADN programs take the HESII. So get off your high horse, apparently the HESII is not just for BSN students. The HESII, in case you do not know, is more for the schools to make sure that you can indeed pass the NCLEX-RN. Remember that their pass rates on the NCLEX have everything to do with the school's accreditation from the NLN...they could care less if you are a well rounded student or not. THey just want to make sure you know the minimum so that you dont make the school look bad (or lose their NLN accreditation).

I do hear that the HESII is harder. But, if the school has a vested interest....

RN34TX · Oct 5, 2006

and if anyone thinks of me as being "below" them because they have an extra year of liberal art classes, I promise you that I will not stand for it.

Your post brought up some very valid points and I enjoyed reading it.

However, some of the bickering comes from the myth that the difference between an ADN and a BSN is "an extra year of liberal arts classes".

I'm in an ADN to BSN program right now and if that were true, I would have finished my BSN a long time ago.

That's just like saying that an ADN takes only two years to complete.

Everyone knows that a lot of prereq work is involved long before you can enter most, if not all, ADN programs and that virtually no one, even 18 year olds living with mom and dad, can just waltz into an ADN program and complete it in two calender years from start to finish.

Same holds true for the ADN going back for the BSN. Most ADN's will find themselves needing to complete a certain amount of prereq's that may not have been a part of their ADN general education requirements such as college algebra, statistics, additional lab science, or other liberal arts courses. Some ADN programs include some of these courses, but some do not.

Under the best of circumstances, certain schools may have articulation agreements that allow you to continue on with minimal or no added prereq's (such as a local community college ADN program articulating with the local university BSN) but this is more the exception and not the rule.

Very few ADN's can jump right into the upper division portion of a BSN program without some additional prereq's taken first at the freshman or sophomore level.

I do think that, with many hospitals paying RNs to return to school to get an advanced degree, that it would be foolish not to take advantage of this. There are even accelerated programs designed specifically for the ADN nurse to get a BSN and go on to a masters. Lets suppose for a moment that ADN nurses will be given 10 years to complete a BSN. That's what? an extra 60-70 credits? Divided by 10 years....that's 7 credits a year, folks.

I agree and that's why I'm doing it.

But again, like you stated "an extra 60-70 credits" is not an extra year of liberal arts classes. I don't know of anyone who's been able to complete 60-70 credits in one year, and these credits include additional nursing, not all liberal arts, that either was not included at all, or was not included in the same depth as an ADN program such as community/public health, nursing research, case management, and upper division level pathophysiology and pharm.

My point here is twofold. One is that BSN completion programs are not a bunch of classes in basket weaving, world history, and poetry. Going through this program has been a big undertaking for me just like it was in my LPN and ADN programs, which brings me to my second point:

Not everyone either wants to, or is an a position to, take on the additional coursework involved in getting a BSN. It's not for everyone and may not meet every nurse's goals and aspirations.

Even 6-7 credits spread out over ten years and paid for by an employer is still a considerable investment of time and effort for someone who may stand to gain very little career-wise by getting a BSN.

pcicurn7 · Oct 5, 2006

Yep, you are absolutely right...its more like 2 years. I think of it as one, since i already took many of the classes you speak about (statistics, college algebra, other sciences and upper division lib ed classes). I guess i was basing it on my own personal experience...and i'm probably not alone, since many of the ADN students are adults seeking a second career, many with a previously completed degree, and some like me, who just never finished.

Good point, though.