??Is there a shortage: Nursing Supply and Demand

TrudyRN · Jul 6, 2007

There is no shortage of RN's, only a shortage of RN's willing to work in bad settings for low pay and poor benefits.

lindarn · Jul 6, 2007

There is no shortage of RN's, only a shortage of RN's willing to work in bad settings for low pay and poor benefits.

AMEN!!!

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Jul 6, 2007

Anywhere from 350,000 to 500,000 registered nurses with current licenses have abandoned the bedside altogether. This does not include retired nurses. If these inactive nurses entered the nursing workforce, there would be no shortage. In addition, not all regions in the U.S. possess nursing shortages...

In my honest opinion, discussions of a presupposed 'nursing shortage' should be scrutinized with a great deal of critical suspicion.

Beggar · Jul 6, 2007

I'm about to start a nursing program and am leaving behind a career in engineering. For most of my engineering career I've heard similar stories about the shortage of engineers. It's been used as the justification for importing engineers on H1B visas and for outsourcing engineering functions.

However, at the same time, layoffs have been a regular part of my professional life. Often times it's been my colleagues, not me, but I've seen probably 10 layoffs in 16 years at 5 companies. Further, while there are postings, they're generally for people with a very specialized skill set which is very hard to come by unless you're working for a large company who has a substantial training budget.

In short, the perception of many engineers is similar to that stated above: "There's no shortage of engineers, only a shortage of subject-matter experts who will work 60-hour weeks for $60,000 per week and no benefits."

Nurses beware: This "shortage" will be used as more and more justification to import ever more nurses from third-world countries who will work for a fraction of what our domestic nurses will.

jjjoy, LPN · Jul 6, 2007

There's a shortage of nurses like there's a shortage of low-paid farmworkers or maintenance staff or child care providers or personal assistive personnel. With any job, if there's a "shortage" it's usually because there aren't enough incentives for local people to CHOOSE that work or to train in that field... often because of low pay that can be compounded by harsh working conditions. Increased pay alone only goes so far as we see in nursing.

If there's a shortage that requires the importation of staff, that should only be a temporary measure just until we can train up enough people locally. However, if the work still doesn't have enough incentives, the so-called shortage will continue. How to stop the cycle? Make the work more appealing through higher wages and better work conditions. But that costs money - which will impact us all in higher costs for services and good. There aren't easy answers.

Beggar · Jul 6, 2007

If there's a shortage that requires the importation of staff, that should only be a temporary measure just until we can train up enough people locally...

The problem is, it never proves to be temporary. The fact that they're brought in to work for less compensation has a depressive effect on wages which only serves to reinforce the need to import more workers.

Also, from what I've seen, they just jump from one employer to another, so long as someone will sponsor them.

Don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to measured immigration. However, I am opposed to importation of workers to fill positions that could be filled by changing conditions to increase retention and by increasing training opportunities.

Just look at the huge number of people on RN program waiting lists.

Robr RN · Jul 6, 2007

I think that the projections for the nursing shortage is optimistic considering that the average age of a RN in the US is 46y and that healthcare insurance carriers are promoting (demanding) reimbursement for quality measures which takes the nurse away from the bedside to do quality paperwork instead of providing quality patient care. The population is getting older, more demands of the nurses, no increase pay with the demands. Wow, I am looking forward to working another 20 years now that I am considered average aged! Maybe at 66 I will be average age again!

jjjoy, LPN · Jul 6, 2007

I very much agree with your perspective, Beggar. I don't know enough about the engineering field but it seems to have similar dilemmas. Companies simply don't want to or can't afford to pay enough or staff well enough to make certain careers appealing. Recruiting foreign personnel is easier. The pay differential is competitive in the foreign market and it's worth while for them to accept pay that isn't competitive locally. Even if it is a living wage here in the states, because of the education needed, those who are qualified choose other lines of work that are better paid, more challenging, with a better work environment, with professional growth potential, etc. In regard to nursing specifically, overseason recruitment also saves money on education as public nursing programs are highly subsidized. Note how expensive private programs are.

lee1 · Jul 7, 2007

I very much agree with your perspective, Beggar. I don't know enough about the engineering field but it seems to have similar dilemmas. Companies simply don't want to or can't afford to pay enough or staff well enough to make certain careers appealing. Recruiting foreign personnel is easier. The pay differential is competitive in the foreign market and it's worth while for them to accept pay that isn't competitive locally. Even if it is a living wage here in the states, because of the education needed, those who are qualified choose other lines of work that are better paid, more challenging, with a better work environment, with professional growth potential, etc. In regard to nursing specifically, overseason recruitment also saves money on education as public nursing programs are highly subsidized. Note how expensive private programs are.

have heard the same complaint from the american computer workers. Why is it that everything has been outsourced to India???? Maybe the Indians also OWN the company??? I don't think there is a shortage of americans coming out of computer schooling classes or university.

Quietstorm1234 · Jul 7, 2007

Train those people that want to be nurses and pay the nurses and instructors that you have a decent rate and that will truly help the shortage

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Jul 11, 2007

Nurses beware: This "shortage" will be used as more and more justification to import ever more nurses from third-world countries who will work for a fraction of what our domestic nurses will.

The problem is, it never proves to be temporary. The fact that they're brought in to work for less compensation has a depressive effect on wages which only serves to reinforce the need to import more workers.

It is against Immigration and Dept. of Labor laws to pay immigrant nurses at lower rates than comparable American nurses.

Nursing immigration is not the same as other professions. Nurses work on Green Cards - not H1Bs.

If you know of a company that is employing foreign nationals as nurses at lower pay rates, it is illegal and that entity is breaking the law!

I don't know how many times this little factoid is repeated - yet people persist with the incorrect information that nurses are imported by the shipload and paid a pittance of a salary.

Please stop by the International Nursing Forum sometime - it contains a wealth of knowledge about foreign nursing and nursing immigration.

EDIT ::

Please see - A few facts that you need to know and Questions for Suzanne

cheers,