Is there REALLY a nursing shortage?

Nurses General Nursing

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This is an interesting article guys/gals...

Here's the letter I wrote to the President, Vice-President, U.S. Congress Rep. and Senator:

"I'm an R.N. and I recently started working as an agency nurse because the pay is so much better and the hours are very flexible. The hospital system in my area that uses most of the agency nurses is in the process of hiring foreign labor to cut costs and fill positions. I read an article, "Is there REALLY a nursing shortage?" by Richard Armstrong and what he said really concerned me. It is true that American jobs are going overseas and there are over 8 million Americans out of work. People who go to school for certain professions do not have jobs when they graduate. Where is the AMERICAN DREAM going??? I realize our country is a melting pot and all, but what about OUR JOBS for US HERE???!!!

Please abolish the H-1B program. Americans need to demand that employers not be allowed to replace American workers with foreigners... I'm finally not living paycheck to paycheck as a nurse and I'm finally able to get ahead... But now there is this big black cloud looming over my head and it's full of foreign nurses trying to get out of THEIR country to take MY job. :( Why are you letting this happen to your fellow Americans???

Sincerely,

Marie L. Schultz

Shreveport, Louisiana"

I don't know if it will help or not, but I figured it was worth a try. Nurses from India, Africa and Thailand (among others) are coming to the Shreveport area to fill gaps of this so-called nursing shortage so that the hospital system I work at won't have to use agency nurses. Instead of paying American nurses better... this is what is happening. Nice. Very nice.

Do you see this happening where YOU are??? I just started working agency and that's all I'm doing right now. I love it. I just started April 19th, 2004 and here it is... not one month later and 15 foreigners are starting in the next week or so as a "pilot" for the other 3 hospitals of this hospital chain. This hospital chain uses most agency nurses here in Shreveport. They're trying to get rid of agency nurses all together by using these other nurses.

Again I ask: Do you see this happening where YOU are???

Thanks in advance. :o :angryfire

You know, I've been wondering about schools lately. It used to be you had to go through the vocational college to do the PN, now community colleges and private colleges are starting to train as well.

Sprott Shaw in BC turned out some of the least skilled PN's I've ever worked with. It's like they went to areas of high unemployment, signed up people who EI would pay for, and went to town. Remember the govt. won't pay for an unemployed person to get a degree, Linzz, but they will pay for PN training. I know this because I left my training roughly $10K in debt as did several of my classmate in my age range (divorces, sahm's wanting to get into the workforce), while several classmembers left debt free due to UIC paying the fees...

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Med-Surg..

Yes it certainly is unfair that you have to pay for your schooling while your taxes pay for someone else to get a free ride. We also had many in my program that were getting many, many perks that those of us (myself included) who were paying our own way, did not get. We had students that got free laptops, expensive stethescopes all courtesy of the Ontario government.:angryfire

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Specializes in Certified Diabetes Educator.

Our state BON approved Medication Aides 2 years ago for nursing homes. Recently the bi-monthly newsletter talked about what a success the program has been and they are looking at expanding it in some instances for hospitals. 3 of the largest hospitals in the state have decided to go back to primary care with RN's having up to 5 patients and having a CNA that will have 10 pts. No LPN's. Children's hospital in Little Rock is advertising for RN's, but with a catch. The job has no benefits and is for 13 weeks at a time----contract labor. Look for this to be the wave of the future. We will probably "bid" for the work out there and it will go to the lowest bidder.

LPN's here are having a hard time finding work and salaries are declining. Classic evidence that there is no shortage. We don't even have any private LPN schools. Just the local comm college.

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Specializes in Certified Diabetes Educator.
Is there a Union for LPN's??? If not WHY?? And how do we go about forming one NATION-WIDE??!!

No unions because most states passed laws that said they are "right to work" states. The unions can't enforce anything when the state has these laws and the minute that workers strike, they are fired with no recourse.

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My statements will probably be construed as controversial, but here goes.

There is no nursing shortage. There are over 2.5 million registered nurses in America in addition to the 700,000 licensed practical/vocational nurses. Therefore, there are more than enough currently licensed nurses in this country to solve the so-called 'nursing shortage'.

Here are the problems. A huge portion of these licensed nurses are not working. Many of these licensed nurses abandon the nursing field altogether due to burnout, poor working conditions, and other issues that deserve some sociological research. Additionally, our greatest healthcare needs are at the bedside, but there are too many nurses in management and not enough who are willing to do the 'dirty work' at the bedside. In other words, there are too many 'chiefs' and not enough 'indians'.

There is no shortage of nurses; rather, there's a shortage of nurses who will put up with the crap at the bedside. There's also a shortage of master's-educated nursing instructors. In addition, nursing pay rates will drop if nursing schools admit and graduate a whole flood of new nurses to fill this so-called 'shortage'.

I am one of those nurse managers that gets her hands dirty. Would never ask someone to to something I am not willing to do.;)

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Specializes in Med/Surg, LTC/Geriatric.
You know, I've been wondering about schools lately. It used to be you had to go through the vocational college to do the PN, now community colleges and private colleges are starting to train as well.

Sprott Shaw in BC turned out some of the least skilled PN's I've ever worked with. It's like they went to areas of high unemployment, signed up people who EI would pay for, and went to town. Remember the govt. won't pay for an unemployed person to get a degree, Linzz, but they will pay for PN training. I know this because I left my training roughly $10K in debt as did several of my classmate in my age range (divorces, sahm's wanting to get into the workforce), while several classmembers left debt free due to UIC paying the fees...

Grrrr.........this is a huge beef with me as well!! I know someone who knows a nurse who teaches at Sprott Shaw. She said that while the majority of the students are there because they want to be an LPN and want to learn, there are a few there because social services is paying their way and they only show up to satisfy social services, or their payments are cut off. They could care less about being an LPN.

Hey, I wish someone would step in and pay for my education and living expenses while I take my course.

And I've heard, for the most part, TERRIBLE things about Sprott Shaw College, the instructors, the poor quaility of instruction and the students are very undertrained when they come out. And not just the LPN course, but many, many of the courses.

And, my tuition including books, fees and EVERYTHING will cost me $7100. Sprott Shaw is $21,000 :eek: :eek:, but it's a lot easier to get into.

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Specializes in Knuckle Dragging Nurse aka MTA.
Our state BON approved Medication Aides 2 years ago for nursing homes. Recently the bi-monthly newsletter talked about what a success the program has been and they are looking at expanding it in some instances for hospitals. 3 of the largest hospitals in the state have decided to go back to primary care with RN's having up to 5 patients and having a CNA that will have 10 pts. No LPN's. Children's hospital in Little Rock is advertising for RN's, but with a catch. The job has no benefits and is for 13 weeks at a time----contract labor. Look for this to be the wave of the future. We will probably "bid" for the work out there and it will go to the lowest bidder.

LPN's here are having a hard time finding work and salaries are declining. Classic evidence that there is no shortage. We don't even have any private LPN schools. Just the local comm college.

I fear the wide spread use of "med aides" will be the downfall of the lvn position.

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Specializes in ED.

I'm just gonna throw out something for debate. Is there really a nursing shortage? We hear so much about short staffing, patient overload and mandatory overtime. I look in the paper and the biggest section in the paper is the medical, all with ads for nurses. The hospitals in my area are all advertising for positions. So how is it, then when a recent group of new grads from a local nursing school applied to my hospital, only one got hired? I read in this forum about hiring freezes, layoffs and how so many new nurses have difficulty finding jobs. I also read about short staffing, mandatory overtime, being forced to float onto units not qualified for d/t staffing demands. I'm well aware of the different demographics around the country, some are glutted, some are experiencing a shortage. But the media makes the shortage seem so widespread.

So my question is this....Is there really a nursing shortage or is this just propaganda from the health care industry as a whole? Is it a way to save money for hospitals and also absolve them of any guilt from bad outcomes due to poor staffing? If you only open the door so far, and let one or two in at a time, you still have a line waiting to get in. Then the hospitals cry, well, there's a shortage, we can't help it!

Just a little food for thought and debate. Conspiracy theorists welcome!

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Specializes in Critical Care, Education.

Pudnluv,

What a great discussion question.

The shortage projections are based on a number of well researched & documented factors (nursing education capacity, new grads per year, shrinking faculty, aging population etc. etc.). However, the economy is playing havoc with all of the numbers.

As the economy shrinks - people are foregoing health care & volumes of service are dropping across the board - ambulatory as well as acute care. Shrinking volumes give rise to shrinking labor budgets. Facilities are coping with this in a variety of ways: cutting positions, increasing part-time ratios (to decrease benefit $); substituting lower skilled staff, etc.

One of the most common reactions to decreasing revenues is slashing any 'non productive' area. This means that education resources are on the chopping block. As an educator, I have experienced this many times in many organizations. Someone once told me that education positions are the second 'most likely' to be cut, right after marketing - seems to be true.

When educational resources are not there, it is very difficult to bring in New Grads. They have to have significant amounts of support/development to achieve competency. At the same time, experienced nurses are going back to work or increasing hours to supplement family incomes.... Result? it's grim for new grads in some parts of the country.

However, in my area - we don't seem to have enough 'under employed' nurses to come back into the workforce. So we're still hiring new grads.

Shortage??? hmmm - it all depends. :rolleyes:

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Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

My friend talked with some recruiters in S.F. who told her that a lot of new grad programs were canceled because of the cost of them and the way the economy is going. They also told her that a lot of the hospitals were not hiring new grads because new grads cost a lot to train (my instructor told us about 60,000). It also depends on area...not just area as in are of the country but the area of nursing you are going into...maybe the should apply for TLC or public health positions...there are a lot open in my area...but every one wants to fun jobs like OB, ER, or OR...

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

Threads merged.

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If HR is as understaffed as nursing units, then perhaps so many positions go unfilled for so long because by the time they process the applicants and hire nurses for two or three slots, there are another 10 open nursing slots that have been put on the back burner. Meanwhile, because it's taken them so long to get to some of the applications, the HR personnel figure it's not worth following up old applications and start the process over again for another two to three slots.

Probably more relevant, though is the BIG problem of the revolving door. Facilities use such slim staffing and pile so many various responsibilities on the nurses that nurses are constantly quitting out of frustration, looking for better working conditions. The facilities are in a constant state of hiring, not because they don't hire, but because they lose staff as fast as they hire them. Ultimately, many nurses conclude that leaving the bedside is the only way to avoid impossible working situations. Thus, the shortage is exacerbated.

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