Is the nursing profession causing its own RN shortage?

[RNDave]

With all the RN's going to NP school, is the profession significantly contributing to the RN shortage? Between retirement and RN's in line to become NP's it seems our unit is on a constant hunt for staff.

[Dogen]

Farawyn, you're on here constantly, putting your own spin on people's posts and generally acting like a troll. Stop it.

Nurses don't need to be disrespected by other nurses.

I've seen you before, you know.

Unfortunately, we all have.

The Terms of Service. I will quote them for you:

We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite. Additionally, please refrain from name-calling. This is divisive, rude, and derails the thread.

Our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. There is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. We will not tolerate anyone insulting other's opinion nor name calling.

[canigraduate]

Farawyn, you're on here constantly, putting your own spin on people's posts and generally acting like a troll. Stop it.

Nurses don't need to be disrespected by other nurses.

I've seen you before, you know.

Unfortunately, we all have.

That is a patently false statement. Farawyn is a funny, sunny person with way more compassion and downright goodness than 90% of the people on this site.

Just because you disagree with something she said does not give you the right to make a blanket judgment.

If I were to follow in your footsteps, I would state that you are a reactionary and can't stand disagreement. Then I would make a hurtful, sweeping generalization and say that you must be awful to work with and I'm glad you're not my nurse.

Luckily for you, I just disagree with what you said and I don't believe it necessarily means you are a bad person.

[Farawyn]

Farawyn, you're on here constantly, putting your own spin on people's posts and generally acting like a troll. Stop it.

Nurses don't need to be disrespected by other nurses.

I've seen you before, you know.

Unfortunately, we all have.

Block me, mean, because I'm not going anywhere, nor am I going to change how I post.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Farawyn, you're on here constantly, putting your own spin on people's posts and generally acting like a troll. Stop it.

Nurses don't need to be disrespected by other nurses.

I've seen you before, you know.

Unfortunately, we all have.

WOW you are so wrong, it's unreal. Farawyn is one of our most valuable contributors.

[caliotter3]

This area is the most expensive in the country, granted. How is that the employers responsibility? There are at least 50 people vying for the same job, so they feel none. Not everybody can have the "American Dream".

When I looked for work in the SF area because I resided there, not one time did I ever meet an employer that expressed any empathy, sympathy, or just plain concern, that I did not have a job. If anything, apathy, with sometimes a little show of smugness.

[Farawyn]

When I looked for work in the SF area because I resided there, not one time did I ever meet an employer that expressed any empathy, sympathy, or just plain concern, that I did not have a job. If anything, apathy, with sometimes a little show of smugness.

LI is much the same as SF. When I left the hospital I was making big bucks, but was (and still am) SOLIDLY middle class. And the same 'tude as well, the smugness.

[NedRN]

If you are talking about the HR experience, their smugness is dead common anywhere in the country. They feel empowered in their jobs by putting up roadblocks for applicants. That is only magnified if you really want a job at their facility.

[Catjobes]

I don't want to sound like a jerk but has there been any attempt to change the culture of your unit to make it hard to consider leaving?! My team is so good that no one wants to leave! 3 of the 6 who have left in the past 5 years have returned because the organization invests in us: a good CE budget, amazingly supportive manager and trauma stewardship to help us process the hard aspects of nursing.

Just sayin'.

[dnnc52]

So it seems we have took a sedgeway into a side discussion on the rewards of certs by our employer. In the early days at a small hospital I was given .30/hr for my CCRN, then got my CEN, and another .30/hr. So a total of 60cents/hr. Plus they actually help me keep my CEUs. So later I went to a much larger system, was still bi-certified now offered .25/hr for certs. But only one cert, according to your area of specialty. I was always a fanatic about my certs. What ever specialty I worked I made it a challenge to be certified. I dropped my CCRN and CEN, when I left the hospital, went into correctional healthcare this CCHP actually gave me a pay raise and a higher position in the company. Went back later into the hospital the largest system cert in Ned-surg , then Geri, got 2 roses on nurse week. I always enjoyed the certs may have been just to improve my self image. But it does make you keep up to continue with the requirements. I did noticed that the larger hospital who encouraged us to get certs were also the ones that gave us the least rewards.

[ixchel]

Spending just a year or so in college and then pushing drug cart around for 35 years may be a good life for someone but it is definitely not an example of good career.

If an ADN programs demand GPA of 3.9 and BSN requires college level statistics and a couple of chemistry courses, they create entrance in the system for very smart, ambicious and relatively young people. Such people will not be satisfied with pushing drug carts and wiping butts even for a year, leaving alone enjoying role of a mix between handmaiden and punchbag. They will search for and exit and they will consider that proverbial stint in med/surg or LTC only as s a necessary evil before getting out.

There is no easy solution for this, although making bedside nursing more tolerable, respected and well-paid will probably keep some nurses there. Split education (i.e. creating intense pathway with early and loaded specialization for those oriented on advanced academia/clinical/leadership roles from the beginning) may work for some too.

Lack of ambition aside.....

This idea that ADN is harder to get into than BSN is a farce. At least where I am, it is. My traditional BSN program had nearly 4x the number of applicants as it did acceptances. The average GPA admitted was 3.8. My 3.89 almost didn't make it. Literally one class wasn't an A. The accelerated second degree BSN has only 24 slots (I believe? Might be 16.) Again, way more applications than slots.

The local LPN program (first part of the ADN program, a requirement) doesn't require a single class be taken first. Just a nice ACT score, which may or may not be from this decade. Don't get me wrong - it's also extremely competitive, but there are far fewer things needed to compete.

By your "just a year or so" statement, are you referring to an LPN? I really don't understand this. If I went to work and literally only Med pushed all day long, yeah, I'd feel unfulfilled as well. I am way, way more than the meds person. This is actually the reason I've waited 2 years since graduation to go to grad school. My job is challenging, engaging, constantly pushing me to my limits, and I would never have it any other way. My end goal has been NP since starting gen eds, but I have loved being an RN so much that I decided to take my time getting back to school. This job is beautiful, fun, terrifying, surprising, awesome, and something completely different every time I show up. I'm sorry if you're only seeing the meds.

[ixchel]

Farawyn, you're on here constantly, putting your own spin on people's posts and generally acting like a troll. Stop it.

Nurses don't need to be disrespected by other nurses.

I've seen you before, you know.

Unfortunately, we all have.

You take the Internet way too seriously.

[ixchel]

I did mention that doing the same entry-level job for 35 years cannot be named a good career, although it may be satisfactory for someone.

Your "entry level job" made me giggle a little. I guess that makes being a doctor entry level as well. It's sad they don't aspire for more. lol

Please know, Katie, I'm not trying to intentionally speak ill of what you are saying here and I get your point. Some of us DO feel fulfilled by our bedside nursing jobs. I absolutely love mine. Your tone seems to be looking down on us for being content with this, as though we would be flawed by wanting to remain in these roles.

You work ICU, right? Is it specialized? Or is it a general, all types admitted unit? I can honestly say my level of enjoyment would be lower if I worked on a specialty floor focusing primarily with one organ system or traumas only. I'm on a step-down unit that generally admits every body system failure/dysfunction. I'm learning new things constantly and it's impossible to feel stagnant. That makes a huge difference.

And with regard to people quitting faster than they can be hired and oriented, this is a giant problem on my unit. I'm starting to feel total frustration when a person putting in notice that doesn't go through the end of the currently-posted 6-week schedule. That screws over the people who have had their back for as long as they worked there. We've just had two people simultaneously put in notice. Their last days were two weeks into the current schedule. We are running short 6 shifts a week now, for four weeks. I get that the unspoken rule is two weeks, but dude. It's hard enough getting through a day fully staffed. Short staffed is a nightmare and will only lead to more people quitting.

This is a legitimate downfall, too, with the type of unit I am on. This type of unit is an awesome stepping stone to any adult/gero specialty. So when we do get our rounds of new grad nurses on residency, they're just doing their one year to go where they really want to be. We need to get this "do your year of medsurg and then go where you really want" out of our expectations. Nursing really screws itself over with this. The units left behind are stuck dealing with the consequences of it.