Is LVN licensure possible (or probable) for an unmedicated schizoaffective? (California)

Julius Seizure · Jul 20, 2017

Just to add to your consideration, LVNs and RNs are regulated by a state board of nursing, and they are not friendly to people with mental health issues - medicated, controlled, or otherwise.

If you chose to become a nurse and the board knew about your diagnosis, you would almost definitely be required to participate in a program that would require regular meetings with therapists and compliance with medical advice. I do not think that it would mesh well with your preference to avoid daily medication.

I think this is probably not the best job plan for you, but I hope you find one that is better suited.

audreysmagic, RN · Jul 20, 2017

I worked in an office - granted, it was a large practice with multiple doctors - and it was stressful at times. Great at others, but definitely stressful. And a lot of offices require a year of experience, which would mean floor nursing, most likely - with all the exposure to the triggers you have mentioned. I have to agree with the other posters that, while I hope you do find a job that works for you, nursing is probably not a great fit. There's no shame in it - there's neurotypical folks who don't find it a good fit, for one reason or another. I don't know enough about construction work to speak to it, so I'll let the posters who are more experienced make suggestions there. Good luck to you, wherever your path leads!

Career Columnist / Author · Jul 20, 2017

I'm trying to figure out a training program that will suit me, and my doctor actually recommended I go to LVN school, saying the stress factor shouldn't be too important in an office job like at his practice.
I still have to figure out whether this is something I truly want to pursue, but I should know if it is a waste of my time due to my disability and my lack of interest in regular medication.

Your doctor is well-meaning but off track. It's a shame when doctors speak with authority on topics they are not trained in and know little about.

In my experience, most general doctors have no more knowledge of mental illness than the general population. I once heard an internist cheerfully declare that his patient with a severe ear infection who was undergoing shock treatment for refractory depression and suicidal ideation would be fine once the ear cleared up "because that was the cause of depression".

I would not go for my LVN but consider low stress careers that do not require high people interaction.

chacha82, ADN, BSN · Jul 20, 2017

You will not be able to avoid certain settings as part of your LPN school, and you won't be able to "opt out" of bathing clients or other activities as part of your clinicals. Although certain job settings are less hectic than others, they all come with their stress factors and as a new grad it may be harder for you to land a desirable office job. Most of your training will probably take place in long term or rehab settings, which is no walk in the park.

**LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM** · Jul 20, 2017

Am I the only one who thinks it's weird and inappropriate that the OP's doctor is trying to convince her to not just pursue being an LVN, but specifically to do so to work in his own office? Because they're short staffed? What the heck?

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2017

At the moment, I'm actually leaning towards solar panel installation, and maybe electrician in the future. General maintenance has been another interest of mine. Conservation biology I think is an area I'd really enjoy, but I'm just not in a place where I want to pursue all the schooling for that.
I haven't spoken extensively about it with my therapist in all honesty. My career counselor said she thinks it would fit me when I brought it up, but she also said RHIT might be preferable for me since I would have more solitary work.
The doctor that brought all this up is my general physician, and I think it might be a combination of trying to be helpful and staffing shortages. He brought up the LVN thing a few years ago. And just recently he also mentioned they are hiring when he brought it up. Anyway, I felt a bit awkward having an extensive conversation about it in that setting, I was really just getting blood work results, so yeah.
I think my biggest issues will be being pushed to move too quickly, and overstimulation in the environment. That includes crowded areas. But I also feel that if I have a job that allows me too move around and use my hands more I will be better able to ignore voices and avoid as much stress. It helps to get outside of my head. That's one reason I have a heavier focus on construction related jobs, because they seem to put me more into the world around me. Where areas I can do stuff on computers and work with files, but I'd have to contend with more hallucinations floating around at the same time pestering me and essentially trying to provoke me or make me angry. At worst I might get a little snappish with people, though the tendency is reduced with strangers, and the brief sort of one on ones like in my doctor's office might be perfect as it also gets me out of my head, but I'm not going to have to maintain an extended focus (for lack of a better term I tend to float around lengthy conversation. I am there but flittering in and out, and paying complete diligent attention is impossible.)
Catheter insertion and removal as well as patient bathing are two things that will provide stress, as sex and nudity are two huge things that the voices manifest and driver me off the wall with. Just reading up on the process of inserting a catheter made me squirm and start to second think this as a good option. I might be able to do surgery things if I were free to grimace all I wanted, but of course that's not exactly hospitable to the patients. I am under the impression this would be avoided more in a private practice office. Wounds I am not so concerned about.
Sigh. I'm in a slight tricky situation in regards to really having a productive lengthy conversation with my therapist or psychiatrist. I'm technically medically noncompliant. I have discounted rent which rests on my compliance with doctor's orders. Which has quite frankly scared me out of having any meaningful conversations with them over treatment. I am quite interested in therapy, but insurance doesn't cover multiple agencies, which is fair enough, but doesn't put me in a position to be able to thoroughly work with a professional. My emotions are so caught up in my symptoms, it seems to me any conversation will inevitably lead to getting my meds adjusted. So I avoid talking. I've been trying to utilize CBT to varying success, but I've been suffering from a lack of structure in my life, and in the process I've lost myself a bit. I did better when I put myself on a schedule and so work or not I intend to do that again.
I could probably see an independent person and pay them myself long enough to get a more rounded opinion and discussion of what is going on.
This is the first time in my adult life I've really been prepared and interested in trying to be self sufficient. I'm probably going to stumble a bit as I try to get used to it. And I may well need to just do part time work for awhile and see how it goes.
Actually, this solar panel installation thing is interesting, if I volunteer and complete one full installation, I am open to join their training program. It gets me into the work right away and I can back off if it won't suit me very easily as well. So that seems like a good low risk thing to try out. And it feels secure if it does work out. Pay is good and seemingly low risk of automation replacing it in the near future.

It sounds to me like you are more interested in the solar panel installation. It sounds like you are only considering LPN because your doctor suggested it. But it also sounds like you know yourself well. I think you should give the solar panel installation a go. Your insight is very good. Best wishes in whatever you choose.

Seagull01 · Jul 21, 2017

If you use the "Quote" button in the lower right corner of another poster's post, we can see to whom, specifically, you're responding. Like I just did. :)
Welcome to allnurses!

Ah, thank you!

Seagull01 · Jul 21, 2017

Precisely. After a twenty year career in the military, I had no desire to put up with daily sexual harassment, threats, and constant general harassment, both on and off the job. I drew the line when someone started playing 'road rage' with me on the way home from work, and I ran out of alternate routes. The foreman, the job superintendent, and the Union supported the male workers' rights to harass me at will, so I decided unemployment was better. I had been accepted to and was awaiting a start date for the apprenticeship.

Wow, that is intense. I'll be wary of this, but I do want to try solar panel installation and maybe electrician and see where it goes.

allnurses Guide · Jul 23, 2017

Am I the only one who thinks it's weird and inappropriate that the OP's doctor is trying to convince her to not just pursue being an LVN, but specifically to do so to work in his own office? Because they're short staffed? What the heck?

That!

allnurses Guide · Jul 23, 2017

I'm trying to figure out a training program that will suit me, and my doctor actually recommended I go to LVN school, saying the stress factor shouldn't be too important in an office job like at his practice.
I still have to figure out whether this is something I truly want to pursue, but I should know if it is a waste of my time due to my disability and my lack of interest in regular medication.
I have troubles with focus due to voices and anxiety that comes from living with them. I probably need to work at a mostly slower pace.
From what I understand of the duties for those who work in clinics and private offices, it doesn't seem like it would be too aggravating. I am fine one on one mostly. My doctor made it so like most of the day's work was done on the computer.
I would probably avoid hospitals simply due to the fact they seem more hectic and stressful.
But again, will there be a point at all in trying to become an LVN? Is there a good chance that the psychological report will take into consideration my whole lifestyle and management system, or will they just throw me to the wolves once they see I don't take any continuous medication? (I say continuous because I don't so much have a problem with meds on an as needed basis, meant to be taken sporificely in extreme circumstances.)
Also I want to note I was on medication for four years. It never made a difference. My psychiatrist said herself I was running out of options. Why poison my body with something that doesn't work? If it makes me an unreasonable threat in this job so be it, I'll find a different career path.

As a psych nurse I am curious why you are so disinterested in taking medication regularly. This is not medical advice but just an observation. With so many newer medications with more tolerable side effect profiles available I wonder why your doctor would discourage you (Either passively or implicitly) to not be on some type of medication.

I am not slamming you for not wanting to taking medications. I work in Psych and know why you don't want to take them but I don't foresee your being successful in nursing if your symptoms are not well controlled. The way I read your post you are still having symptoms such as hearing voices, anxiety etc...

In most cases where nurse licensure is concerned the licensee must show that they can do their job without being impaired by mental illness and/or substance dependence. This is called having good safe judgement.

The BON job is not to cater to nurses but to protect the public from harm. That is their mandate.

While I feel for your plight I respectfully and with empathy state that even if you finish school and manage to get licensed, your lack of interest in taking medications may lead to board action and a monitoring program that would require you take those medications to practice.

If you want to talk about stress - try having the BON breathing down your neck for 5 years!

I would advise you to seek a different career path, one that won't have the "Safety Police" monitoring your practice and causing you additional stress.

Hppy