I just finished a CNA course at a public technical college.
On our last day of class we had a small graduation ceremony with the students and a few residents of the nursing home where we did clinicals.
Our instructor invited a guest speaker from a religious group she belongs to. The guest speaker preached about her religion and put down everyone who doesn't practice the same religion.
We had to go up one by one to receive a certificate from our teacher and a New Testament book from the guest speaker.
The school is not a private school and has no religious affiliation. This is a state approved program. The program had no religion component, discussions, or learning material. We were never asked if we felt comfortable with this before we were blindsided with it.
THIS ALL TOOK PLACE BEFORE OUR FINAL REVIEW WITH THE TEACHER FOR THE CLASS!
Is this legal?
What would you do?
How would you feel if you felt forced to participate in something like this outside of your own religious beliefs?
Incorrect. This is actually the only part of the debate that is not debatable. There is no question as to the legality of what occured.
There might be a breach of some implied social contract, mores, or good taste, but no law was broken.
Actually you are incorrect. A law was broken.
The US Supreme Court ruled against mandated daily school prayer in Engel v. Vitale (1962). In 1963, it struck down laws in Pennsylvania and Maryland which mandated Bible reading and prayer.
Clergy in the Schools" project: A panel of the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on 1999-APR-16 that a Texas "Clergy in the Schools" program is unconstitutional. The Beaumont Independent School District introduced this program in 1996. Local clergy led group counseling discussions in the school about morality and civic virtues . The students involved in the counseling were selected by school officials without prior notice to, or consent form, the parents. Prayer and discussion of religion, sex or abortion were not permitted. The clergy were not allowed to identify their church affiliation. Secular counselors were not permitted. The majority opinion of the panel was that the program "makes a clear statement that it favors religion over nonreligion." They were also concerned that the clergy were disproportionately Protestants. The found that the involvement of school officials in this project created an "excessive entanglement" between church and state.
The Supreme court has ruled that any religios activity at a publicly funded institution that is endorsed by the institution is unconstitutional and therefore illegal.
:)
This was obviously a clergyman proselytizing at a publicly funded school with the endorsement of the school leadership. Sue the religious zealots I say.
Honestly, this would not bother me. The Lord is the great physician, but he does not always produce miracle healings. He gives us nurses or future nurses the calling and knowledge to be a healer and save. My church has had several guest speakers that were not pastors or missionaries. I think that there needs to be a little more forgiveness in this world. And as for one of the previous posters, the Lord gives forgiveness to those that give their lives over to Him. He is not a vindictive God. He has always been about love. He wants you to come to Him. He is calling you, you just aren't listening.
Yeah, perhaps we need to tone down the "call to Christ" here on this thread. Please read the Terms of Service, this is getting a bit out of hand.
Im considering asking my lawyer, but seeing as he charges me for cards he sends me on my own birthday, Im not even going to waste my time with this. We'll just have to see how this plays out.
The US Supreme Court ruled against mandated daily school prayer in Engel v. Vitale (1962). In 1963, it struck down laws in Pennsylvania and Maryland which mandated Bible reading and prayer.
Clergy in the Schools" project: A panel of the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on 1999-APR-16 that a Texas "Clergy in the Schools" program is unconstitutional. The Beaumont Independent School District introduced this program in 1996. Local clergy led group counseling discussions in the school about morality and civic virtues . The students involved in the counseling were selected by school officials without prior notice to, or consent form, the parents. Prayer and discussion of religion, sex or abortion were not permitted. The clergy were not allowed to identify their church affiliation. Secular counselors were not permitted. The majority opinion of the panel was that the program "makes a clear statement that it favors religion over nonreligion." They were also concerned that the clergy were disproportionately Protestants. The found that the involvement of school officials in this project created an "excessive entanglement" between church and state.
The Supreme court has ruled that any religios activity at a publicly funded institution that is endorsed by the institution is unconstitutional and therefore illegal.
:)
This was obviously a clergyman proselytizing at a publicly funded school with the endorsement of the school leadership. Sue the religious zealots I say.
I would sue.....for millions.......there is no reason anyone should ever be made to listen to something they dont like. The terrorists have truly won.
Millions?? Terrorists?? The point of terrorism is to scare people, to keep them at home, to ruin economies.
To receive millions she would have to prove that she was harmed so much that she can no longer work, or work at a decreased level, severe emotional trauma, etc.
I don't know the legal route you can take. Is this a govt facility? Private? I guess if it was a govt facility then that would fall under separation of church and state.
I definitely do not agree with what happened. It's up to you what you want to do. Personally, I would write letters and move on.
i am far from being a devout christian; i can count the number of times i have been to a church service on one hand in the last ten years. i don’t pray before meals, i don’t pray before i go to bed. i don’t give tithes.
but.
it only takes 270 electoral votes out of 538 to elect the president of our country. (50.1%)
78.4% of the population of the united states identify themselves as christian in some form. i am one of them, though i don't practice.
even at 30 years old, i can see the decline in our society that is rapidly increasing over the years. do i think it has anything to do with the pullback from christianity and the morals i was raised on? maybe. probably.
it's the overwhelming minority that complains. most people, even most non-christians, don’t really care. i wouldn’t move to the saudi arabia and complain about them giving me a koran at graduation. i’d politely decline it and let it be.
this is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, but frankly i don’t really care. my skin is thicker than a nanometer. i know how to shrug off things i don’t agree with, especially when i’m not in the majority.
p.s. when running a spell-check with microsoft word, it forced me to capitalize the c in christianity. it wouldn’t ignore christianity or christ in any form without requesting capitalization.
i am far from being a devout christian; i can count the number of times i have been to a church service on one hand in the last ten years. i don't pray before meals, i don't pray before i go to bed. i don't give tithes.
but.
it only takes 270 electoral votes out of 538 to elect the president of our country. (50.1%)
78.4% of the population of the united states identify themselves as christian in some form. i am one of them, though i don't practice.
even at 30 years old, i can see the decline in our society that is rapidly increasing over the years. do i think it has anything to do with the pullback from christianity and the morals i was raised on? maybe. probably.
it's the overwhelming minority that complains. most people, even most non-christians, don't really care. i wouldn't move to the saudi arabia and complain about them giving me a koran at graduation. i'd politely decline it and let it be.
this is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, but frankly i don't really care. my skin is thicker than a nanometer. i know how to shrug off things i don't agree with, especially when i'm not in the majority.
p.s. when running a spell-check with microsoft word, it forced me to capitalize the c in christianity. it wouldn't ignore christianity or christ in any form without requesting capitalization.
Honestly, this would not bother me. The Lord is the great physician, but he does not always produce miracle healings. He gives us nurses or future nurses the calling and knowledge to be a healer and save. My church has had several guest speakers that were not pastors or missionaries. I think that there needs to be a little more forgiveness in this world. And as for one of the previous posters, the Lord gives forgiveness to those that give their lives over to Him. He is not a vindictive God. He has always been about love. He wants you to come to Him. He is calling you, you just aren't listening.
The flying spaghetti monster is even better. It's not too late to get in to pasta heaven. His noodlely appendage is reaching out to you.
i am far from being a devout christian; i can count the number of times i have been to a church service on one hand in the last ten years. i don’t pray before meals, i don’t pray before i go to bed. i don’t give tithes.
but.
it only takes 270 electoral votes out of 538 to elect the president of our country. (50.1%)
78.4% of the population of the united states identify themselves as christian in some form. i am one of them, though i don't practice.
even at 30 years old, i can see the decline in our society that is rapidly increasing over the years. do i think it has anything to do with the pullback from christianity and the morals i was raised on? maybe. probably.
it's the overwhelming minority that complains. most people, even most non-christians, don’t really care. i wouldn’t move to the saudi arabia and complain about them giving me a koran at graduation. i’d politely decline it and let it be.
this is going to ruffle a lot of feathers, but frankly i don’t really care. my skin is thicker than a nanometer. i know how to shrug off things i don’t agree with, especially when i’m not in the majority.
p.s. when running a spell-check with microsoft word, it forced me to capitalize the c in christianity. it wouldn’t ignore christianity or christ in any form without requesting capitalization.
this will be my only post on the topic. i will not fight about it.
i find your comparison of saudi arabia, a strict authoritarian theocratic monarchy, to the united states, a secular democratic republic, frightening.
again, answer my question regarding a white supremacist and mein kampf. or a muslim and the koran. or any other scenario taking place in the united states.
I would be mad it were a large graduation where I spent tons of money on a cap, gown, invitations and had a bunch of friends and relatives present, but this was a smaller more private affair. I would let it go, and get on with whats important. I know your not happy, but in the giant scheme of things this isn't a big deal. You have much more important things to do with your time and energy.
For the inevitable reply that the U.S. is a Christian nation and all others should just deal with it, let's see what our founders actually thought.
From the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
This was passed unanimously by Congress and then signed into law by a certain John Adams. It was published in no less than three major newspapers, and history finds not a single ounce of outcry regarding the above article of the treaty.
I find your comparison of Saudi Arabia, a strict authoritarian theocratic monarchy, to the United States, a secular democratic republic, frightening.
Again, answer my question regarding a white supremacist and mein kampf. Or a Muslim and the Koran. Or any other scenario taking place in the United States.
There is no such thing as a democratic republic. You are one or the other. We are a republic, democracy in America is a myth that people seem to swallow hook line and sinker. As far as not being a theocracy, we almost are. If the majority of Americans had their way we would be. However the founding fathers knew this and smartly made us a republic not a democracy or in their words a mobocracy.
Atheos
2,098 Posts
Actually you are incorrect. A law was broken.
The US Supreme Court ruled against mandated daily school prayer in Engel v. Vitale (1962). In 1963, it struck down laws in Pennsylvania and Maryland which mandated Bible reading and prayer.
Clergy in the Schools" project: A panel of the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on 1999-APR-16 that a Texas "Clergy in the Schools" program is unconstitutional. The Beaumont Independent School District introduced this program in 1996. Local clergy led group counseling discussions in the school about morality and civic virtues . The students involved in the counseling were selected by school officials without prior notice to, or consent form, the parents. Prayer and discussion of religion, sex or abortion were not permitted. The clergy were not allowed to identify their church affiliation. Secular counselors were not permitted. The majority opinion of the panel was that the program "makes a clear statement that it favors religion over nonreligion." They were also concerned that the clergy were disproportionately Protestants. The found that the involvement of school officials in this project created an "excessive entanglement" between church and state.
The Supreme court has ruled that any religios activity at a publicly funded institution that is endorsed by the institution is unconstitutional and therefore illegal.
:)
This was obviously a clergyman proselytizing at a publicly funded school with the endorsement of the school leadership. Sue the religious zealots I say.