Is it just nurses or........

Nurses General Nursing

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I read the posts on this site often and I always seem to see threads related to nurses not being able to obtain jobs. My question is whether or not nurses are the only major HEALTH profession facing this issue. The reason why I asked is because I have friends who have graduated pharmacy school and all of them were able to obtain jobs. As a matter of fact, they all had multiple job offers. Also, my neighbor's daughter graduated school and is an occupational therapist and she said that she and all of the others who graduated as occupational therapists from her school were also able to obtain jobs w/o any issues. So, in healthcare is it just nurses who are having a hard time finding employment? If so, what makes it easier for a pharmacist, occupational therapist or any other health profession to get a job? I mean after all, we all experienced the same recession right?

I do agree there is a huge overabundance of nurses being "pumped" out. Now that I have my degree and my license they can solve this however they please. LOL

ROFLOL!!!! Exactly, let me get mine first and then you can do whatever. I believe thats why we are in this economic mess now.

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What do you do with people who have other types of Bachelor's degrees and then become RNs? Do those degrees count for anything (because as we know, a nice number of students in ADN programs are second or third degree students)? Some even have a Master's degree.

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Specializes in Med-Surg/DOU/Ortho/Onc/Rehab/ER/.

Now I was in no way trying to be "negative" towards ADN people or programs.

If I came across that way, I apologize.

I was about to attend an ADN program but didn't on account that, as I said, I would look more unique with my BSN (read previous post). Of course ADN programs are good for people that have kids or are limited on time.

What I was trying to get across is that, I think one way for our profession to stop this over production of nurses is to limit the many "ways" to become a nurse as well as up the academia for it. I mean yea, a lot of its very convenient but look what happens. A lot nurses and no jobs to give them.

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Are you kidding me?

dental ASSISTANTS (like Nursing assistants...dont need even an associates) PA's DO NEED A BACHELORS, you need a masters for a PA too...

and Paralegals do req a bachelor degree.

you need to check your logic....

I may have misspoken about PA programs. It sounds like most of them do require a bachelors now. But, not a masters like you claim. And, no, paralegals don't require a bachelors or even an associates. There are programs that offer those degrees in paralegal studies, but it's not a requirement of the profession. And, I never said dental assistants required a certain degree.

And speaking of "checking your logic", I would like to know your (and lindarn)logic behind doing away with ABSN programs.

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I totally agree with lindarn

As far as the academic portion, I was explaining to my fiancee that in a 60 mile radius there are like 17 ADN programs, but only 4 BSN programs....now who looks more unique the BSN or the ADN nurse?

Do away with the diploma, and associates degree nursing programs

Make BSN REQUIRED (no offense guys)

&&&& Definitely do away with the whole ABSN/EL-MSN thing.

Is there fast track teaching degrees? Fast track lawyer degrees? Can you teach high school with an associates? Uh-no

Nursing is the only profession that has like so many freaking ways to be a nurse, even the entry-level masters programs which now, as a floor RN, you are totally overqualified because you have a masters....

SO flooding happens when there are so many people who opened more schools (and more programs open to the school that already HAS a program) then you get the "nursing shortage" hype (yea, if you live in the boondocks) And you get a recipe for disaster, aka....no jobs for new grads

just my opinion.

You believe all RN's should have a BSN, so why get rid of ABSN programs? It's not a "fast-track" as much as it is a second bachelors. I had a bachelors already, and then wanted one in nursing. That is what a ABSN is for. Before my nursing program started I had all the general studies courses from my first BS and took the required prereqs that I didn't happen to complete the first time in college (like micro, psych, etc). I don't have any less education then anyone in a traditional nursing program has, or less clinical hours.

And yes, for someone who has a bachelors and/or relevant experience in a field (like science) already, there are programs that let you take some classes, student teach, and get a teaching license.

A "lawyer degree" as you call it is after you have earned a bachelors and is a whole different type of program. It's not comparable to a ABSN program.

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Specializes in Med-Surg/DOU/Ortho/Onc/Rehab/ER/.
I may have misspoken about PA programs. It sounds like most of them do require a bachelors now. But, not a masters like you claim. And, no, paralegals don't require a bachelors or even an associates. There are programs that offer those degrees in paralegal studies, but it's not a requirement of the profession. And, I never said dental assistants required a certain education.

And speaking of "checking your logic", I would like to know your (and lindarn)logic behind doing away with ABSN programs.

Not quite. Good luck getting hired as a PA with a bachelors. You do know that they can prescribe drugs? So masters required.

But hey, maybe your state is different. Same with paralegal.

As for the ABSN, just another way to kind of cut the many ways to get into nursing. If that's what your doing then good for you. But again that's my opinion. Yours differs so let's agree to disagree.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.
I disagree MiVidaLoca. This shouldn't be "someone else's" problem to fix. This is our profession, so we all share some of the responsibility here. We should want peers and co-workers who come fresh out of school with the appropriate training and education. Its going to save us time, energy, and yes money, in the long run because it could then mean less time to train/precept them. Not only that, but we should strive for excellence and ask that too of our peers. Raising the bar to a more standardized level of entry is one way to do that.

How do we not have that now? If the new nurse can pass their NCLEX, no matter what degree they have, they start in the same place. If ADN graduates didn't have the appropriate training and education, they would not become licensed.

Now, are there too many programs graduating new nurses? Absolutely. If you have suggestions for how to fix THAT, be my guest. Doing away with a type of degree is not the answer.

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http://www.texasnurses.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=82

Factors identified by the US Department of Labor that impact the national RN supply-demand balance are:

  • An expanding US median senior population creates a growing demand on acute services

  • Retirement of baby-boomers will add increased strains on the US health care system

  • Demand for RNs is expected to grow faster than the average through 2020 since it is one of ten occupations projected to have the largest number of new jobs

  • Employers report difficulty in attracting and retaining nurses

  • Demand continues to increase for master's and doctoral prepared nurses for advanced practice, clinical specialties, teaching, and research

  • Beginning around 2012, a decline is projected in the RN supply due to (1) a higher retirement among aging RNs in comparison to new nursing student graduates joining the RN work force; (2) retirement of aging faculty at schools of nursing; and (3) along with factor that RN salaries are higher in the health care industries than at academic institutions, particularyly schools of nursing, public and private.

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http://www.texasnurses.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=82

Factors identified by the US Department of Labor that impact the national RN supply-demand balance are:

  • An expanding US median senior population creates a growing demand on acute services

  • Retirement of baby-boomers will add increased strains on the US health care system

  • Demand for RNs is expected to grow faster than the average through 2020 since it is one of ten occupations projected to have the largest number of new jobs

  • Employers report difficulty in attracting and retaining nurses

  • Demand continues to increase for master's and doctoral prepared nurses for advanced practice, clinical specialties, teaching, and research

  • Beginning around 2012, a decline is projected in the RN supply due to (1) a higher retirement among aging RNs in comparison to new nursing student graduates joining the RN work force; (2) retirement of aging faculty at schools of nursing; and (3) along with factor that RN salaries are higher in the health care industries than at academic institutions, particularyly schools of nursing, public and private.

add to that specific information and data about my state

Factors affecting Texas RN supply-demand balance:

  1. Demand for health care services in Texas is rapidly growing due to both an aging population, and in-migration from other US states and foreign countries. In 2006 Texas' population grew to 23.5 million--a 38.4 percent population increase. The US Census Bureau projects that by 2015 the Texas population will exceed 25 million and by 2025 it will reach 28 million.
  2. During the late 1980s and throughout the '90s, fewer persons entering the work force made professional nursing their career choice. As a consequence, the current average age of the Texas RN work force is 45+ years.
  3. 73,000 RNs, half of Texas' current supply, will retire over the next 10 years.
  4. In 2009 Texas' 93 initial RN licensure programs had to turn away some 8,734 qualified applicants seeking admission due to lack of funding for sufficient faculty staffing and/or classroom facilities.
  5. Sixty-eight percent (68%) of Texas' 2,193 nursing faculty are 55-years or older. Approximately 1,491 faculty members are estimated to retire over the next 10 years.

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Not quite. Good luck getting hired as a PA with a bachelors. You do know that they can prescribe drugs? So masters required.

But hey, maybe your state is different. Same with paralegal.

As for the ABSN, just another way to kind of cut the many ways to get into nursing. If that's what your doing then good for you. But again that's my opinion. Yours differs so let's agree to disagree.

I think that you forgot that your point was that RN's should have to have a BSN as a requirement to be an RN, similar to that of the other professions and the (incorrect) educational requirements that you mentioned. Anyway, nevermind.

I didn't say I disagreed with cutting out ABSN programs. I'm trying to understand your logic before I decide. Why is a traditional BSN better then a ABSN?

It sounds like you are saying that they should be done away with as a means to eliminate the supply of new grads. I guess if someone has a bachelors in something else, and they now want a BSN, under your plan they are out of luck? Or, can they repeat a whole 4 years (or more) of college?

IF (and I repeat IF) I believed in that logic, I would say it would make more sense to eliminate many traditional BSN programs, where there are MANY (not ALL) people without much life experience, don't really know what they are getting into, or what they want from life, and because of those factors maybe less likely to actually be in nursing 5 years after they graduate then a ABSN student.

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Specializes in Med-Surg/DOU/Ortho/Onc/Rehab/ER/.
I think that you forgot that your point was that RN's should have to have a BSN as a requirement to be an RN, similar to that of the other professions and the (incorrect) educational requirements that you mentioned. Anyway, nevermind.

I didn't say I disagreed with cutting out ABSN programs. I'm trying to understand your logic before I decide. Why is a traditional BSN better then a ABSN?

It sounds like you are saying that they should be done away with as a means to eliminate the supply of new grads. I guess if someone has a bachelors in something else, and they now want a BSN, under your plan they are out of luck? Or, can they repeat a whole 4 years (or more) of college?

IF (and I repeat IF) I believed in that logic, I would say it would make more sense to eliminate many traditional BSN programs, where there are MANY (not ALL) people without much life experience, don't really know what they are getting into, or what they want from life, and because of those factors maybe less likely to actually be in nursing 5 years after they graduate then a ABSN student.

Dude calm down lol.

Why would you assume that cutting ABSN programs equals cutting traditional BSN programs? Never said that BSN was better than ABSN. I never said that people should do all 4 years over again either. I don't know how to fix that situation. I honestly don't know. Happy? Lol

Anyway as I repeated, my whole point or logic or whatever you wanna call it was to cut the many ways to be am RN. That was my point. Now honestly I am not going to (and we obviously already have) hijack this thread over opinions.

I have stated mine and you have stated yours. Let's let others put their opinion in and if want to further this pointless debate than by all means pm me.

Peace.

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Specializes in cardiology/oncology/MICU.

Regardless of how well the ADN or BSN perform compared to each other, the trend (at the VA at least) is to move toward RN's in patient care roles having at least BSN. Management at this hospital from nurse managers up nearly all have MSN. Like it or not the days of the ADN are going to come to a close. The registered nurse has more autonomy and responsibility than ever, and that typically correlates to higher education.......and by the way, I am an RN, ADN. Hmmmm better get my butt back in school.

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